NamVet Newsletter, Volume 7 Number 1, November 12, 1994

     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     .                                  __                           .
     .    -*-  N A M   V E T  -*-  ____/  \_                         .
     .                            (      *  \                        .
     .        Managing  Editor    \    Quangtri                      .
     .        ----------------     \_/\       \_ Hue                 .
     .         G. Joseph Peck          \_Ashau    Phu Bai            .
     .                                   \_*       \_                .
     .      Distribution Manager           \      *  )               .
     .      --------------------          _/     Danang              .
     .          Jerry Hindle      \|/    (            \_*Chu Lai     .
     .                           --*--    \_    ------- \__          .
     .                            /|\       \_  I Corps    \         .
     .        Section Editors                 \ -------     !        .
     .        ---------------                /\_____        !        .
     .  INCARCERATED VETS: Joyce Flory      /       !        \       .
     .  MIA/POW: Paul Bylin                 !       !___      \      .
     .                                      !           \/\____!     .
     .  KEEPER OF THE LIST: Joyce Flory     !                 !      .
     .                                     /  Dak To          !      .
     .                                    /     *            /       .
     .                                    !                  \_      .
     .                                    !             Phu Cat\     .
     .                                     \    *            *  )    .
     .                                      \ Pleiku            )    .
     .     -*-  N A M   V E T  -*-           \                  \    .
     .                                       /                  /    .
     . "In the jungles of 'Nam, some of us  (       --------    !    .
     . were scared and wary, but we pulled  _\      II Corps    !    .
     . one another along and were able     /        --------     \   .
     . to depend on each other.  That has  \                      \  .
     . never changed.  Today, free of the   !                 *  /   .
     . criticisms and misunderstandings   _/           Nhatrang /    .
     . many veterans have endured,      _/                     /     .
     . NAM VET is a shining beacon,  __/                       !     .
     . a ray of hope, and a    _  __/  \                       !     .
     . reminder that the _____( )/      !               Camranh Bay  .
     . lessons learned  /               !__                    !     .
     . at such a high  /                   \                  /      .
     . price shall not \          Bien Hoa  \                /       .
     . be forgotten  -  !  Chu Chi       *   \            __/        .
     . nor the errors    \_   *   ---------   \       ___/           .
     . repeated!!!"  ____  \      III Corps    \    _/               .
     .       / \_____)   )_(_     ---------     !__/  Duplication in .
     .       !               (               ___/ any form permitted .
     .  _____!                \__      * ___/      for NONCOMMERCIAL .
     . !                          Saigon/            purposes ONLY!  .
     .  \___   --------           /  \/                              .
     .      \  IV Corps          /       For other use, contact:     .
     .       ) --------         /                                    .
     .      /                   !   G. Joseph Peck (813) 885-1241    .
     .     /               ____/           Managing Editor           .
     .    /         Mekong/                                          .
     .    !         Delta/  This newsletter is comprised of articles .
     .    !        ____/     and items from individuals and other    .
     .    !       /       sources.  We are not responsible for the   .
     .    !      /      content of this information nor are any of   .
     .    !   __/        NamVet's contributors or Section Editors.   .
     .     \_/                                                   gjp .
     .                                                               .
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                    Page    i
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994



                      T A B L E   O F   C O N T E N T S

     1.  From US to YOU
          Short ... but meaningful .................................  1
          Happy Birthday NamVet!!! .................................  2
          The President's Veterans' Day Proclamation ...............  3
          Copyright Notice .........................................  5

     2.   Keep on keeping on!
          Yahrzeit '88 .............................................  6
          Maggie ...................................................  9
          The Silent Warrior ....................................... 12
          Murphy's list continues to grow! ......................... 13
          Sermon from Mount Dong Quang ............................. 15

     3.  Heart to heart...
          Honoring Vietnam's Hidden Casualties ..................... 16
          I was there just last night .............................. 18
          eterans Day at The Wall .................................. 21
          Family Ties .............................................. 24
          Let YOUR Congressperson KNOW!!!! ......................... 26

     4.  Let my people go!
          MIA/POWs.  Does anyone REALLY care? ...................... 27
          Does one person's effort REALLY count? ................... 29
          They haven't forgotten US!!! ............................. 31
          How will the Vietnam war end? ............................ 32
          US Government Cover-up Exposed ........................... 35
          Vietnam Casualty Inscribed on Wall ....................... 36
          Remember? ................................................ 37

     5.  The NamVet Chapel
          Proper Perspective!! ..................................... 38
          The Electronic Chapel .................................... 39

     6.  Prepared ... but not
          OH, How Far It's Come .................................... 40
          Imprisoned Vietnam vets have voice ....................... 42
          A visit or note once in awhile? .......................... 45
          Common Sense? ............................................ 46
          Incarcerated Veterans .................................... 47
          Vietnam Veterans ......................................... 49

     7.  Don't eat or drink!
          Veterans and Agent Orange ................................ 55
          Break out the Clearasil ! ............................ 70

     8.  Veteran commo from Uncle Sam and ...
          DVA & Women Veterans Health Programs ..................... 71
          VWMP's Sister Search ..................................... 75
          VWMP's Sister Search Form ................................ 76
          VWMP Products for 1994 ................................... 77

     9.  Bits n' Pieces
          Vets Bits       .......................................... 78
          Been there ... done that! ................................ 81
          Babykillers, that's what we were called .................. 82
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     10.  VETLink BBS Spotlight
          Traumatized Vet Helps Others Via Computer ................ 83

     11.  Eternal Vigilance ...
          NamVet/IVVEC Service Department! ......................... 86
          Treat Our Flag Right ..................................... 87
          Our Flag - Part 2 ........................................ 88
          Our Flag - Part 3 ........................................ 89

     12.  IVVEC Phonebook/Information
          IVVEC Phonebook .......................................... 90
          Happy Birthday NamVet!!! ................................. 99
          Some Gave All... ......................................... 100

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                    Page   ii
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                               From US to YOU

                         Short ... but meaningful
                              By Gjoseph Peck
                         NamVet's Managing Editor
                          VETLink #1 - Tampa, FL
                              (813) 249-8323
     Patty calls kitten-now-cat Piglet;  I call her Squirt.   If you've 
     been following our NamVet's for a time,  you'll recognize the name 
     "LZ English" - the name given a kitten by one of the characters in 
     a past editorial;  the kitten who,  in a sense,  brought to one of 
     our near-fictionalized Nam vet the realization that Life _does_ go 
     on  and we _must_  "keep on keeping on"  when it would be kind  of 
     "safe"  to  just  stay  right where we  are,  doing  things  we're 
     familiar  with.   She's sitting on top of the  monitor,  carefully 
     watchin'  my  fingers fly across the keyboard and making SURE  I'm 
     doing  things as near right as I can (I haven't taught her how  to 
     spell-check  yet though ).  Kind of looks like she  _knows_ 
     that this, our 7th Annual NamVet, won't be done until my editorial 
     is finally finished.  
     "Please  don't  take  all  night again,"  I can  almost  hear  her 
     thinking  as her bright beady eyes stare at me,  ears perking when 
     the keyboard slows.  "Please don't take all night again... there's 
     lots of veterans out there in cyberspace that are waiting for this 
     to get done..." 
     I  thought  I had a critic on my shoulder BEFORE   ...   THIS  one 
     stares at me until my job is done! 
     Click ... click ... click ...
     "  ....  the  ultimate  tragedy  in life  is  not  failure.    The  
     ultimate tragedy is to be unwilling to take risks when significant 
     purposes present themselves!"  
     Without  further ado,  I present to you our Seventh Annual edition 
     of  NamVet  ...   and  sincerely  thank  all  of  those  who  have 
     contributed to it,  who have read it,  who eagerly look forward to 
     the next issue coming off the electronic presses.
     Thank you ALL for giving SPECIAL meaning to MY life ...
                              'til next time
                     Show a brother or sister veteran
                             that YOU care!!!
                                  -= Joe

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page  1
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                         HAPPY BIRTHDAY NAM_VET!!!!
                  *     *      *      *      *     *     *
                 | |   | |    | |    | |    | |   | |   | |
                 | |   | |    | |    | |    | |   | |   | |
              ___| |___| |____| |____| |____| |___| |___| |___
             |                                                |
             |    Putting unity in our Veteran CommUNITY!!    |
     ________|                                                |________
     G. Joseph Peck  *  John Mendes *  Jerry Hindle *  Ray Moreau * Doc
     Megan Flom *  Dave Doehrman * Joan Renne * Dale Malone * Jeff Beer
     Clay Tannacore  *  Jim Hildwine *  Lefty Frizzell *  Alex Humphrey
     Craig Roberts *  Ray Walker * Bill Plude * Jim Ferguson * Bil Cook
     Ed Brant *  Mike Harris *  Glenn Toothman * Carl Dunn * Don Purvis
     Fred Sochacki   *  Sarge Hultgren  *  George Currie  * Rick Bowman
     Doug McArthur *  Sam Thompson *  Marsha Ledeman * David Nieuwouldt
     George Fallon  *  Bob Douglas  * Ken Knowlton  *  R.J. Christenson
     Martin Kroll *  Glen Kepler * Terry Hayes * Lydia Fish * Jim Ennes
     Karen Winnett   *  Scott Summers  *  Ralph Carlson  *  Joe Meadors
     Mike Kelley  *  Chick Curry  *  Charles Harper  *  David Kirshbaum
     George Winters  * Bob Smith  *  Aulton White * James Nerlinger Jr.
     Gordon Giroux * Rod Germain  * Todd Looney  * Bac Si * Pete Farias
     Brad Meyers * Max Green *  Marge Clark * Ann Murrell * John Sakers
     Bob Morris * Gale Barrows *  Joe Roske * Ralph Feller * Jack Moore
     Geoffery Setser *  James Capelle  *  Rick McMahon *  Chris Pollack
     Richard Morrow  *  Henry Elsworth  * Jesse Kitson  *  Jim Henthorn
     Art Fellner  *  Harlow Campbell  *  Rick Kelley  *  Mike Readinger
     Richard Wolbaum  *  Walt Fletcher  *  Mike Halley  *  Gary Searles
     Larry Kerr *  Patti Porter * Wade Fallin * Lance Cooper * Jim Fine
     Bob Wieters   *  Ken & Joyce Flory  *  Mike Dacus   * George Marsh
     Randall Dickerson *  Steve Byars  * Jon Mankowski * Henry Van Leer
     Chuck Reed * Paul Bylin  *  John Olsen * Rick Cowan  * Larry Pulka
     Arthur Caby * Ron Allen *  David Coleman *  Dave Smith * Dan Nance
     Robert Johnson  * Larry Easley  *  William G. Smith  *  Art Dunkle
     Jeff Patterson  * Eddie Shoe  * Van Hoyle * Russ Terry * Bob Smith
     Henry France *  Gordon Roberts *  Mary & John McGill  * Lance Culp
     Gerald Thibodeaux  * Jerry Murphy * Stephen O'Donnell * Don O'Dell
                 >>>>>>> and all the rest of us!!!! <<<<<<<
                             Our *-SEVENTH-* Year
                           " Service with Pride! "
              The International Newsletter for Vietnam Veterans

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page  2
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                The President's Veterans' Day Proclamation
                           Provided by Jeff Beer
                      VETLink #50 - Fairfield Bay, AR
                              (501) 884-6277
                              THE WHITE HOUSE
                       Office of the Press Secretary
          For Immediate Release                  October 27, 1994
                               VETERANS DAY, 1994
                                  - - - - - - -
                              A PROCLAMATION
        Each year, we set aside November 11 to honor the men and women 
     who have served in our Nation's Armed Forces.  Their stories are 
     not only of past glory and current sacrifice; their lasting 
     contributions are to our future as well.  Their deeds and 
     dedication assure us and the generations to come that America's 
     great promise of freedom and happiness will endure and flourish.
        Fifty years ago on this day, American forces of World War II 
     were pushing the enemy back across the European continent, 
     liberating hundreds of thousands along the way.  These heroic 
     Americans fought to win the peace, not just for themselves and for 
     their Nation, but for oppressed millions in many lands.
        The world has changed tremendously since then.  Today, the 
     international role of the United States has evolved from 
     peacemaker to peacekeeper.  And still we call upon our Armed 
     Forces to serve our Nation and to defend the cause of freedom 
     everywhere.  Our men and women in uniform understand that the 
     ideals of democracy and self-determination are larger than any 
     single nation.  The blood of Americans spilled on battlefields 
     from Normandy to Korea to Vietnam and the vigilant defense of 
     freedom throughout the Cold War have taught us a lasting lesson: 
     America can only rest secure when every individual knows liberty 
     and all nations live at peace.
        It is an extraordinary person who is willing to step in harm's 
     way to protect others.  Our Nation has always been blessed with an 
     abundance of such men and women.  We owe our veterans an 
     inestimable debt of gratitude.  On this day, we recognize how much 
     they have done, and are doing, to make a better, safer tomorrow 
     for all of us.
        In order that we may pay due tribute to those who have served 
     in our Armed Forces, the Congress has provided (5 U.S.C. 6103 (a)) 
     that November 11 of each year shall be set aside as a legal public 
     holiday to honor America's veterans.
        NOW, THEREFORE, I, WILLIAM J. CLINTON, President of the United 
     States of America, do hereby proclaim Friday, November 11, 1994, 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page  3
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     as "Veterans Day."  I urge all Americans to honor the resolution 
     and commitment of our veterans through appropriate public 
     ceremonies and private prayers.  I call upon Federal, State, and 
     local government officials to display the flag of the United 
     States and to encourage and participate in patriotic activities in 
     their communities.  I invite civic and fraternal organizations, 
     places of worship, schools, businesses, unions, and the media to 
     support this national observance with suitable commemorative 
     expressions and programs.
        IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this twenty-
     seventh day of October, in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred 
     and ninety-four, and of the Independence of the United States of 
     America the two hundred and nineteenth.
                            WILLIAM J. CLINTON

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page  4
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     >  * - Copyright Notice - *   ____/~~\_                         <
     <                            (      *  \                        >
     > Prepared by G. Joseph Peck \    Quangtri                      <
     <       NamVet Project        \_/\       \_ Hue                 >
     > Electronic Veterans' Centers of \_Ashau    Phu Bai            <
     <  America Corporation (EVAC)       \_*       \_                >
     > Copyright 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990,  \_     *  )                <
     <     1991, 1992, 1993, 1994         _/     Danang              >
     >                                   (            \_*Chu Lai     <
     <       All rights reserved.         \_    ------- \__          >
     >                                      \_  I Corps    \         <
     < NamVet is a collective volunteer       \ -------     !        >
     > effort comprised of articles and      /\_____        !        <
     < items sharing veteran-related news,  /       !        \       >
     > experiences and resources amongst    !       !___      \      <
     < veterans, their family members,      !           \/\____!     >
     > concerned others and health,         !                 !      <
     < educational and correctional        /  Dak To          !      >
     > institutions.                      /     *            /       <
     <                                    !                  \_      >
     >                                    !             Phu Cat\     <
     < Segments of this newsletter may be  \    *            *  )    >
     > excerpted for counseling, self-      \ Pleiku            )    <
     < help, dissemination amongst veteran   \                  \    >
     > organizations and groups, and for     /                  /    <
     < scholarly purposes without further   (       --------    !    >
     > permission; it is requested only     _\      II Corps    !    <
     < that proper credit be given to the  /        --------     \   >
     > author of a particular article and  \                      \  <
     < the contributor who submitted it.    !                 *  /   >
     >                                    _/           Nhatrang /    <
     < ANY OTHER USE REQUIRES THE       _/                     /     >
     > WRITTEN AUTHORIZATION OF      __/                       !     <
     <                         _  __/  \                       !     >
     > Electronic Veterans'___( )/      !               Camranh Bay  <
     <    Centers of    /               !__                    !     >
     >     America     /                   \                  /      <
     <   Corporation   \          Bien Hoa  \                /       >
     >      (EVAC)      !  Chu Chi       *   \            __/        <
     <                   \_   *   ---------   \       ___/           >
     >        .      ____  \      III Corps    \    _/               <
     <       / \_____)   )_(_     ---------     !__/                 >
     >       !               (               ___/                    <
     <  _____!                \__      * ___/                        >
     > !                          Saigon/                            <
     <  \___   --------           /  \/                              >
     >      \  IV Corps          /                                   <
     <       ) --------         /  CONTACT:                          >
     >      /                   !  Electronic Veterans' Centers of   <
     <     /               ____/     America Corporation (EVAC)      >
     >    /         Mekong/        ATTN: G. Joseph Peck              <
     <    !         Delta/          Managing Editor - NamVet         >
     >    !        ____/           Post Office Box 261692            <
     <    !       /                Tampa, Florida  33615-1692        >
     <    !      /                    VOICE: (813) 885-1241          <
     <    !   __/                                                    >
     <     \_/                                                   gjp <

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page  5
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                             Keep on keeping on!

                     Yahrzeit '88
                     Submitted Anonymously
        My heart aches, and a drowsy numbness pains
          My sense, as though of hemlock I had drunk,
        Or emptied some dull opiate to the drains
          One minute past, and Lethe-wards had sunk:
                       - John Keats "Ode to a Nightingale"
     She put them up in a brass and stained oak frame.  Against the
     white satin background they didn't appear so ominous, and didn't
     supply a hint as to the way in which they are awarded.  A pretty
     color, like that on the robes of royalty; pure and deep with
     majestic allusion.  On a weekly basis, she polished the frame,
     keeping the brass as bright as a ray of morning sunlight.  The
     glass was so spotless that it was possible to see quite clearly
     ones own reflection.  She picked a conspicuous spot for them,
     and fastened them to the wall in the hallway.
     And so they hung there, waiting.  Waiting.
     But I didn't look at them.  I didn't want to see the morbid days
     and endless nights that caused their arrival.  I didn't want to
     face the face that won these prizes through violent means.  But
     she kept polishing the brass and glass, commenting "They are
     precious metals" to those who asked about them.  And they hung
     there on the wall, passed each time a step was taken in the
     And so they hung there, waiting.  Waiting.
     Each week she would clean them, and the evening sun would cast a
     reflected light ray to the end of the hall.  Each week she would
     polish them with a tenderness as if they were children to be
     held.  She never said a word about them, but it was easy to tell
     she was extremely curious about their origins.
     And so they hung there, waiting.  Waiting.
     Any appeal to remove them was met with stern disapproval.  She
     wanted something to remind her of what had happened, even if she
     didn't know exactly what that was.  She never pried, but held me
     gently on the nights I would wake up soaked in sweat and tears.
     She never complained, and never wanted out; instead she would
     shed tears for my fears, and cry for my sorrows.  And every
     week, she would clean and polish them, until like a beacon they
     And so they hung there, waiting.  Waiting.
     The sleepless nights faded into the past, the weeks melted into
     months, and the months passed into years.  And each week she
     would polish them, not voicing a bit of curiosity.  She
     understood the pain, because it was evident in her eyes each
     morning after a dream of return had come.  Her soft touch and
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page  6
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     wavering voice exposed the silent melancholy her heart felt and
     she tried so hard to hide.  And each week, she returned to them,
     polishing them brightly.
     And so they hung there, waiting.  Waiting.
     The tenderness, style and beauty was taken from her in an
     instant she never realized.  I never had a chance to explain to
     her the prize was one of immense sorrow.  She would polish them
     as if they were the most important thing in our existence.  She
     held them as tenderly as she had held me on the occasions that
     it was needed.  She understood that the key to my welfare was
     locked in that frame of brass and oak, and the only way to
     release the demons was to face the face in the reflected glass.
     And so they hung there, waiting.  Waiting.
     Her funeral was a complete shock.  The realization of death I
     thought had died many years ago.  Death was something benign,
     something that didn't affect me anymore.  Yet here she was, the
     Joy, Beauty and Truth of my life, lying in grassy solitude.  She
     was no longer there to polish the brass and oak frame, so the
     dust and tarnish collected, dimming the Light they reflected in
     the past.
     And so they hung there, waiting.  Waiting.
     What the war couldn't accomplish, I thought pills could.  G-d
     it's such a hard life! The pills: they can fix everything.  If I
     take enough of them....  And like a memory hidden by time, the
     brass greened and the oak cracked.
     And so they hung there, waiting.  Waiting.
     Waking up in the hospital, I was told death had been a breath
     away.  My first reaction was anger for failing, then anger for
     trying, and finally settled into weeks of self imposed
     isolation, purging the pent up feelings in emotional
     self-abasement.  The questions came faster than I could possibly
     answer, and I closed myself off even further.  Ignoring all life
     around me.
     And so they hung there, waiting.  Waiting.
     I got home with the feeling she had deserted me; leaving me in
     not so silent agony.  The first thing I noticed was they were
     polished, bright as any day she had cleaned them.  I asked who
     polished them, and everyone said they didn't know.  I took them
     off the wall, excused myself and went into my private chambers.
     For the first time I was able to look at them since they were
     hung around my neck by the powers that warranted their action.
     For the first time I was able to look at the face that won them,
     and realize that it was a face of an ordinary man, and not a
     maniacal killer.  I held them and finally the tears came.  The
     tears that would begin to wash away the stench of guilt and
     sorrow of the years past.  The tears that would finally release
     me from the unbearable torments of my dreams.  As I moved to
     wipe the fallen tears from the polished glass, I looked and saw
     her face, as clearly as she was sitting there with me.  She was
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page  7
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     smiling a smile of extreme serenity, and lipped the words
     "Welcome home.  I love you." And just as suddenly, she was gone.
     I knew then who returned the lustre to them.
     And they no longer hung there, waiting.  Waiting.
     I took the medals and wrapped them in a bedsheet and boxed them
     up.  The box was taken to a family storage place, where they
     will be safe and cool.  The brass and oak frame that she
     polished so persistently will be safe from corrosion and decay
     until I decide to take them out again.  But for now, they have
     served their purpose.  The Marines gave them to me for my
     conduct.  My wife gave them to me for my sanity.
     And they no longer hang there, waiting.  Waiting.
     15 years ago I finished my SEA tour.  10 years ago my wife died,
     taking that beautiful smile and that full life with her.  With
     this, the tenth anniversary of her death, I would like to let
     the world know that she was with me when all others had given up
     hope, and loved me when I didn't seem to love her back.  So my
     continuing love for her I express poorly in these words:
     You were all of life to me.  Yet when I thought that you had
     abandoned me in death, you still managed to pull me through
     life.  You gave me back that burning desire for life I had lost.
     Even as you could support me in life, you saved me in death.  I
     cannot offer anything other than the troth I pledged before, to
     reaffirm before G-d and man to love you for all eternity.
                              # # #
                         Semper fidelis

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page  8
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                        By Michael McCombs
                      VETLink #1 - Tampa, FL
                         (813) 249-8323
     LTC  Martha  Raye.  Helluva lady.  Hell of  a  woman,  period.  Only 
     stateside  entertainer  to ever come to our compound in  Kontum.  No 
     troupe, no lights, no microphones,  no nothin'  fancy.  Just Maggie. 
     And that's the way it's best.
     None of the others even tried. Not that we would've have let 'em in, 
     of course. The compound was sealed from pryin'  civilians,  and most 
     military,  for that matter.  Which was good,  'cause we never had to 
     look over our shoulders to see if Dan Rather was writin' it all down 
     to  be  corrupted  on  the six o'clock news.  But it  did  have  the 
     downside of never seein' a round-eyed woman without makin' the trek. 
     Well, I guess nothin's perfect.
     But Maggie came. She had a standin' invite. Didn't even have to mail 
     it  to her.  We were there,  the guys in the funny green hats.  That 
     meant she was welcome. Don't know how old that was,  but it had been 
     a fact of bein' SF since Training Group. Maggie was one of us.   You 
     learned  it along with the club handshake upon receipt of the  magic 
     decoder  ring.  And it was just about as fundamental as which end of 
     your rifle pointed down range. I found out why in Kontum.
     The  excitement amongst the older generation (over twenty-five)  was 
     dynamic that mornin'. Everybody was runnin' around gettin' haircuts, 
     clean  uniforms,  brushin'  their teeth,  and checkin'  their  booze 
     supply. I asked, and they would just grunt, "Maggie."  Like maybe it 
     was some kinda magic formula or somethin'.  Oh, I knew the name, but
     damn man, this was bizarre behavior.  So I did it too.  Sarge didn't
     raise no dummies, and I can sense a gale blowin' as well as the next 
     guy.  Hell,  I  even helped clean the Recon Club -  an awesome task, 
     flatly turned down by the maids. Whaddahell, might as well get in on 
     this. Never met any celebrities before, anyhow.  She'd been in a lot 
     of those old movies I'd watched as a kid. 
     She arrived on a chopper from Pleiku around mid-afternoon.  A couple 
     of  the  E-8's went out and got her in a jeep and brought  her  back 
     through  the  gates.  Little  woman,  not too much bigger  than  the 
     'yards. Hair permed to death, wrinkles everywhere,  and a smile that 
     could  stop an incomin'  122 and make it purr.  God,  the smile went 
     from ear to ear and back again,  and it dropped twenty years off her 
     like a shot. And she wasn't tidy with it, she spread it all over the 
     place. Had one for everyone of us,  with plenty left for the 'yards, 
     ARVN, everybody. Sheee****t! This was okay, man.
     She  got outta the jeep in front of Recon company HQ,  threw off her 
     baseball cap, and out came the beret. 
     She  put  it on,  smiled even wider,  and said,  "I need  a  f*ckin' 
     Damn straight.  It didn't strike me as incongruous,  then. I mean we
     all talked like that,  too.  I wouldn't catch on to that until I got 
     home  and  had  a  series of folk explain to  me  it  wasn't  proper 
     English.  Whadahell!  Somebody got her a drink.
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page  9
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     Then it was off for a tour of the compound.  She'd been here before, 
     that  was  obvious.  What was amazin'  was that she  remembered  the 
     place.  She  wanted to see this and that,  and she knew all the  old 
     names,  all  the  teams and who'd been on 'em.  She also  remembered 
     every name given to her. First time, every time.  
     "Maggie, this is Mike McCombs from RT California."
     "Glad to meet ya, Mike, didya know Joe?"
     "Damn straight, met me off the plane."
     "Good man,  Joe,  saw him in Hollywood a couple weeks back.  You the 
     one he called Sweet Thing?"
     Shee****t! What kinda memory banks this lady got, anyhoo?
     She  stops  and  talks to everybody.  The 'yards  haven't  seen  any 
     American  women  in a while,  and are dazzled by this one  with  the 
     silver  leafs  and the big mouth.  She gets more bracelets than  the 
     rest of us put together.  Later,  Weet will smile at me and say that 
     he  now understands why alla men come to Nam.  I only smacked him  a 
     little. And at every stop she drinks. And she stays sober. Now, I've 
     got good capacity, but this is awe inspirin'.  And it's still before 
     Dinner  she eats one night with us and one night in the O-club.  She 
     admits  she  does have to do it cause of the rank.  But she  doesn't 
     spend a lot of time with 'em, she wants to be with the guys who hump 
     the  boonies.  Good taste.  She don't mind the officers that do that 
     humpin',  it's  the staffies she don't like.  After dinner,  she bar 
     Its  odd  about this camp.  We have maybe 100  Americans,  and  five 
     clubs. We all bar hop to an extent, spread the wealth around. But we 
     all  have  our favorites,  too.  Mostly it's the regular  clientele. 
     Recon  or Covey or old NCO or Officer or Mike.  Maggie hits 'em all. 
     She  concentrates  on  Recon and Mike.  Again,  'cause we  hump  the 
     boonies.  Lord  only  knows  what she does when she goes  to  non-SF 
     joints.  But that ain't my problem.  The first night she holds forth 
     mostly in Mike. The second night, she's mostly in my AO. There ain't 
     no third night. She's got a schedule, and she has to get back to her 
     troupe and still make stops elsewhere. But that second night....
     The  war wasn't put on hold.  Teams still came and went,  the  guard 
     changed,  life went on.  But Maggie managed to lace her way into the 
     fabric  of  it.  She'd stop in with a team and help pack  chow.  She 
     filled  sandbags,  she  helped a team off the pad with their  rucks, 
     bringin'  cool  ones,  she watched us go to the range,  played pool, 
     walked the berm, visited Rosie's. Sh*t, she was everywhere. Ate with 
     the guys, and always had a kind word, a good story,  and news of the 
     other  sites the few remainin'  green weenies were hangin'  at.  She 
     never  said  a  monologue  or stood on a  stage.  but  she  did  her 
     entertainin' job to the max. Sh*t, she didn't bring a piece of home, 
     she brought herself, and gave remorselessly. 
     That second night I spent three hours drinkin' and talkin'  with her 
     in  the  Recon  Club.  Nothin'  special 'bout me,  just I  was  from 
     Southern Cal., too,  and we had lots to talk about.  Others came and 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 10
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     went,  but  we stayed.  I don't remember Viet Nam that night.  don't 
     think I was there. I think we were down on the Sunset Strip, and the 
     band  was  playin',  and the folks were dancin',  and it was a  good 
     date. She left,  that third morning,  the way she came.  We stood on 
     the  berm and waved as she flew away.  Then we did a collective sigh 
     and went back to war. 
     I saw her again in '72, after I came home for the divorce.  She kept 
     a  safehouse  in  Hollywood for us.  I was at loose  ends,  no  home 
     anymore, and she took me in. She couldn't stay;  off to Thailand,  I 
     think. But I was welcome to stay. I did for a week,  and then I went 
     off to Ft. Devens and 10th Group.
     One last time, I saw her. At Arlington, in D.C. A funeral for an old 
     SGM who dived into a pea patch in Thailand. She was there,  in dress 
     greens, Corcorans, beret and all. For a friend.  She pulled me aside 
     and asked if it was true that his 'chute was fine and he just hadn't 
     pulled.  I just pointed at the man's wife and kids,  and she nodded. 
     She went over to 'em, afterwards, and said TheWords.   Helluva lady. 
     I think she knew she'd heard right.
     After  the funeral,  she and I once more held forth at a local club, 
     the  NCO club on North Post,  just outside the cemetery.  The others 
     came  by,  and I somehow ended up delegated escort.  Don't know how. 
     Maybe  it  was the way she said "Sweet Thing,"  maybe not.  A  young 
     Spec.  4  came  over and begged her to come to the Acey-Deucy  club, 
     'cause  they never got celebrities.  And we went.  I got her back to 
     her hotel around 2:30,  and I don't remember how the hell I got back 
     home. I'll bet she didn't even have a hangover....
     That's about it. That's the Maggie I knew.  I guess she recently got 
     married  to some young dude in Hollywood.  She's no  sprin'  chicken 
     anymore. Hope it works out.
     Just a quick word for ya, dude. You'd better treat Maggie right. You 
     don't  and  your  ass is grass.  And I know a couple  thousand  lawn 
     mowers, all of 'em ugly as me....
                          :         )
                   .~ ~ -.\       /.- ~~ .
                   >       `.   .'       <
                  (         .- -.         )
                   `- -.-~  `- -'  ~-.- -'
                     (        :        )           _ _ .-:
                      ~--.    :    .--~        .-~  .-~  
                          ~-.-^-.-~ \_      .~  .-~   .~
                                   \ \'     \ '_ _ -~
                                    `.`.    //
                           . - ~ ~-.__`.`-.//
                       .-~   . - ~  ~ ~ ~-.~-.
                     .' .-~      .-~       :/~-.~-./:
                    /_~_ _ . - ~                 ~-.~-._

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 11
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                            THE SILENT WARRIOR
                           By: Karen A. Winnett
                  S.I.R.E.N. IS CALLING - Sacramento, CA
                              (916) 971-0589
     The fire fights have ended and the big guns no longer roar
     but the Silent Warrior's fighting like he's never fought before!
     No point man walks before him and no man takes the rear,
     no comrade stands beside him though death is always near!
       He humps no hills or valleys and he sweats no jungle heat.
       He stalks no Vils or cities, yet has no road to retreat.
       His field pack long abandoned and his rifle gone to rust,
       The Silent Warrior battles, because, he has no choice, he must!
     It's a long range operation, the objective long and hard,
     to the Valley of the Shadow, where only Angels are.
     The Silent Warrior battles, where no soul should have to go,
     and no heart can ever reach him, for his battlefield's unknown!
     Don't look to the north or south, don't look west or east, look
      to home and know the truth, this is where the warrior bleeds!
     His campaigns rage in silence, and he battles here at home,
     his courage goes unnoticed and his valor, few have known!
       Behold the Silent Warrior, lost deep within his thoughts,
       his body frozen solid, never never to unlock!
       What enemy could do this, what hearts could be so cold,
       to do him such dishonor, a brother of our own!
     I look into unseeing eyes and I wonder where he is,
     and damn the souls who were taught to care, yet did a thing like
     Behold this valiant warrior, who never more shall speak,
     curled up in a fetal ball on antiseptic sheets!
     His arms and legs contracted, his body old and frail
     his honor stripped away and lost where love should not have
     Look gently on this old one, who battles day and night,
     and let every warrior cry for him, until Valhalla's in his sights.
     For such are the forgotten, not dead yet not alive,
     doing battle on the Veterans wards beyond uncaring eyes!
     Behold the Silent Warrior, who's stillness screams with rage,
     who wars in fields of solitude, and there, til death, he stays!
       I have touched the Silent Warrior, and learned to know his pain,
       I have fed and I have bathed him, and cried when no one came!
       I have reached down to his anger and held his ruined hands,
       and I felt the battle raging, and I cursed, "God damn!"
     Behold the Silent Warrior, who battles until death,
     honor him and know his face, stand guard beside his bed.
     For such are the forgotten, some lost and some abused,
     victims of a friendly fire we never can undo.
     Yes, the Fire fights have ended, and the big guns no longer roar,
     but the Silent Warriors fighting like he never fought before!
     Go to him, and  speak his name, and understand the truth,
     don't let him die behind the lines, the next warrior could be you!

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 12
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                     Murphy's list continues to grow!
     A special THANKS to Dave Doehrman and Khe Sanh Vets Newsletter; 
     Springfield, MA VVA Chapter 111; Lt. Col Jack Finch USA (Ret.) and 
     members of the VIETNAM_VETS International Echo for helping us keep  
     Murphy's list growing!  Okay... now all we need is to have our 
     Desert Shield/Desert Storm folks let us know how Murphy treated 
     them?  How's about it, folks?
       - An Incomplete List of Murphy's Laws of Combat Operations -
     1.  Military intelligence can be a contradiction in terms.
     2.  Recoilless rifles - aren't.
     3.  A sucking chest wound is nature's way of telling you to slow
     4.  The enemy diversion you are ignoring is the main attack.
     5.  If the enemy is within range, then so are you.
     6.  Friendly fire - isn't.
     7.  If it's stupid and works, then it ain't stupid.
     8.  When you have secured an area, don't forget to tell the enemy.
     9.  If you're short of everything except the enemy, then you're in 
          the combat zone.
     10. Try to look unimportant.  They may be low on ammo.
     11. The easy way is always mined.
     12. Tracers work both ways.
     13. Sh*t happens.
     14. Incoming fire has the right of way.
     15. Teamwork is essential. It gives them other people to shoot at.
     16. Never draw fire - it irritates everyone around you.
     17. No combat ready unit has ever passed an inspection.
     18. No inspection ready unit has ever passed combat.
     19. Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get 
     20. If both sides are convinced they're about to lose, they're 
          both right.
     21. Professionals are predictable, but the world is full of
          dangerous amateurs.
     22. Fortify your front and you'll get your rear shot up.
     23. When in doubt, empty your magazine.
     24. In war, important things are very simple and all simple things 
          are hard.
     25. Don't look conspicuous, it draws fire.
     26. Communications will fail as soon as you need fire support.
     27. Weather ain't neutral.
     28. Never share a foxhole with anyone braver than you.
     29. Remember, your weapon was made by the lowest bidder.
     30. If you can't remember, the claymore is pointed towards you.
     31. All five second grenade fuses are three seconds.
     32. The only thing more accurate than incoming enemy fire is
          incoming friendly.
     33. If your attack is going really well, it's an ambush.
     34. No OPLAN survives first contact intact.
     35. If it flies, it dies.
     36. When you are forward of your position, the artillery will
          always be short.
     37. Suppressive fire - won't.
     38. You are not Superman.
     39. Cavalry doesn't always come to the rescue.
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 13
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     40. B-52's are the ultimate in close air support.
     41. Sniper's motto: Reach out and touch someone.
     42. Peace is our profession - mass murder's just a hobby.
     43. Killing for peace is like whoring for virginity.
     44. There's always a way.
     45. Murphy was a grunt.
     46. It's not the one with your name on it - it's the round
          addressed "to whom it may concern" ya gotta think about.
     47. Remember napalm is an area weapon.
     48. Mines are equal opportunity weapons.
     50. There is no such thing as the perfect plan.
     51. The enemy invariably attacks on two occasions:
         a. when you are ready for them.
         b. when you are not ready for them.
     52. Anything you do can get you shot, including nothing.
     53. Marine math: 2 beers times 39 Marines is 49 cases.
     54. Body Count Math: 2 VC plus 1 chicken and 3 pigs equals 37
          enemy killed in action.
     55. Things that must be together to work, can't be carried in the 
          field that way.
     56. If you take more than your share of objectives, you will be 
          given more than your share of objectives to take.

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 14
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                        SERMON FROM MOUNT DONG QUANG
                        (as re-told by Mike Dealey)
     MATTHEW five-five:
          "Blessed are the meek, for they shall not be selected
                           for night patrol."
     MATTHEW five-six:
          "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after
            righteousness, for they shall fly B-52s."
     MATTHEW five-seven:
          "Blessed are the merciful, for it gives you time to
                       grease the suckers."
     MATTHEW five-eight:
          "Blessed are the pure in heart, for it shall be they who
                    clean the sh_tters every day."
     MATTHEW five-niner:
          "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called
                children of God and score beaucoup acid."
          [This was neatly handwritten on what appeared to be a
           mimeographed copy.  Circa 1969, I'd judge.  Author(s)

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 15
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                              Heart to heart...

                   We Honor The Hidden Casualties of War
                               By Al Santoli
                  The Tampa Tribune/Tampa Times 10/23/94
                    "Heads Up" By Judee & Jerry Strott
                        VETLink #1 BBS - Tampa, FL
                              (813) 249-8323
     With  58,191  names inscribed on its black  granite,  the  Vietnam 
     Veterans Memorial in Washington, D.C., is one of the nation's most 
     hallowed monuments to its war dead.
     Yet not all of the victims of that war died in battle.   Some have 
     died -- or are still dying -- of exposure to herbicides like Agent 
     Orange,  of  post-traumatic  stress  disorders and of  other  war-
     related  conditions.   Now  a  way has been found to  honor  these 
     hidden casualties of war.
     Last year, the Friends of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, a private 
     organization, launched a program called In Memory.   It recognizes 
     these "lost veterans" by displaying their names on a special honor 
     roll at the memorial site.
     "The  deaths  of those veterans,"  said Mary  Meyer,  the  program 
     coordinator,   "are   no  less  tragic  than  casualties  on   the 
     battlefields of Southeast Asia.  The lack of tribute for these men 
     and  women has been especially painful for their loved  ones.   We 
     hope  that  public recognition will be a healing process  to  help 
     families find closure with the suffering they have endured."
     New inductees,  nominated by their families,  will be added to the 
     list  at  public ceremonies every Memorial Day and  Veterans  Day.  
     All services are provided free.
     Susie  McDowell,  43,  a mother of two teenage girls,  said at the 
     ceremonies  held  last  Memorial  Day:   "Recognition  here  gives 
     meaning to all that my husband went through."
     Her husband of 17 years, Donald "Mac" McDowell -  a former mailman 
     in Moorhead, Minn --  was awarded a Purple Heart for combat wounds 
     suffered in Vietnam with the 101st Airborne Division.   Exposed to 
     Agent  Orange,  he  died  in  1993 after  a  15-year  battle  with 
     One of his most cherished wishes was that his name be inscribed on 
     the Vietnam Veterans Memorial.   "Mac's best friend,  Dave Holsen, 
     tried  every  way possible to get his name inscribed,"  said  Mrs. 
     McDowell,  "but  we found that the memorial excludes most veterans 
     who died following their return home."
     After  nearly giving up hope,  Holsen learned about the In  Memory 
     program.   As a result,  Mac was among the first group of veterans 
     honored at the program's inaugural ceremony.
     Each In Memory veteran is represented by a certificate and family-
     donated  mementos that are ceremonially placed at the base of  the 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 16
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     memorial  wall.   Afterward,   the  materials  are  collected  and 
     archived  by  the National Park Service as part of the  memorial's 
     permanent historical record.  In addition, the Friends maintain an 
     information  booth  at the memorial's entrance,  where a  leather-
     bound In Memory album is available to the public 24 hours a day.
     At the Friends' office in Arlington, VA.,  the executive director, 
     Ira  Hamburg,  said the program was initiated because of the  high 
     number  of  post-Vietnam casualties.   Veterans organizations  say 
     that several thousand Americans involved in the fighting have died 
     from war-related wounds, cancers from herbicide exposure, suicides 
     linked to post-traumatic stress disorders and other causes.
     One name added recently was that of the author Lewis Puller,  Jr., 
     who  died by his own hand following years of painful disabilities.  
     He was the son of Lt. Gen. Lew "Chesty" Puller, the most decorated 
     Marine in the history of the corps.
     The   program's  coordinators  emphasize  that  helping  surviving 
     families to heal is a foremost concern.  In addition,  the program 
     includes  a  tribute  to civilians who were killed in  Vietnam  -- 
     diplomatic   employees,   advisers,   Red  Cross  volunteers   and 
     journalists  --  whose  names  are not eligible to appear  on  the 
     Vietnam  Veterans Memorial.   A referral service to link  veterans 
     with In Memory families is being organized.
     Wanda  Ruffin,  the  Friends'  coordinator  of  volunteers,  is  a 
     registered  nurse and a grief counselor.   Her husband,  James,  a 
     naval aviator,  was killed in the war.   "The families have shared 
     their loved one's suffering for many years," she said.  "They have 
     been  directly  affected by his nightmares and by his physical  or 
     emotional pain.   It's very important for them to know that others 
     share their experience,  that they are not alone.   There is value 
     in honoring the veteran they loved.  It's not just the loss that's 
     remembered, but the value of his life."
     At the memorial site in Washington, D.D., Susie McDowell reflected 
     on  coming  to terms with her husband's sacrifice and finding  the 
     strength  to  share  with others.   "So many  families  have  felt 
     alone," she said.   "Our husbands'  being recognized here is truly 
     healing for those who loved them."
     "Mac  never begrudged the war,"  she added.   "I don't know if  he 
     wanted to be there.  He was drafted.  But, in the end,  he's being 
     recognized  for  his  service and for his 15  years  of  suffering 
     afterward.  Without people like him,  we wouldn't have the freedom 
     that we enjoy in this country today."
     FOR  MORE INFORMATION or an application form to honor a loved one, 
     contact:  In  Memory,  Friends  of the Vietnam Veterans  Memorial, 
     Dept.  P,  Suite  106,  Box  108,   4200  Wisconsin  Ave.,   N.W., 
     Washington, D.C.  20016

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 17
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                        I Was There Just Last Night
                              by Robert Clark
                    Issue Nine - 1994 * The High Ground
                   P O Box 457 - Neillsville, WI  54456
     A  couple  of years ago someone asked me if I still thought  about 
     Vietnam.   I  nearly  laughed  in their face.   How  do  you  stop 
     thinking  about it?   Every day for the last twenty-four years,  I 
     wake up with it, and go to bed with it.   But this is what I said.  
     "Yea, I think about it.  I can't quit thinking about it.   I never 
     will.   But,  I've also learned to live with it.   I'm comfortable 
     with  the  memories.   I've learned to stop trying to  forget  and 
     learned instead to embrace it.  It just doesn't scare me anymore."
     A  psychologist  once  tome  me that NOT  being  affected  by  the 
     experience over there would be abnormal.  When he told me that, it 
     was like he'd just given me a pardon.   It was as if he said,  "Go 
     ahead  and feel something about the place,  Bob.   It ain't  going 
     nowhere.   You're gonna wear it for the rest of your life.   Might 
     as well get to know it."
     A  log  of  my "brothers"  haven't been so lucky.   For  them  the 
     memories  are  too painful,  their sense of loss  too  great.   My 
     sister  told me of a friend she has whose husband was in the  Nam.  
     She asks this guy when he was there.   Here's what he said,  "Just 
     last night."   It took my sister a while to figure out what he was 
     talking about.   JUST LAST NIGHT.   Yeah I was in the Nam.   When?  
     JUST LAST NIGHT.  During sex with my wife.   And on my way to work 
     this morning.  Over my lunch hour.  Yeah, I was there.
     My sister says I'm not the same brother that went to Vietnam.   My 
     wife  says  I  won't let people get close to  me,  not  even  her.  
     They're probably both right.
     Ask  a  vet  about making friends in Nam.   It  was  risky.   Why?  
     Because  we were in the business of death,  and death was with  us 
     all the time.   It wasn't the death of,  "If I die before I wake."  
     This  was  the real thing.   The kind where boys scream for  their 
     mothers.  The kind that lingers in your mind and becomes more real 
     each  time you cheat it.   You don't want ot make a lot of friends 
     when the possibility of dying is that real, that close.   When you 
     do, friends become a liability.
     A guy named Bob Flanigan was my friend.  Bob Flanigan is dead.   I 
     put him in a body bag one sunny day,  April 29,  1969.   We'd been 
     talking, only a few minutes before he was shot, about what we were 
     going  to do when we got back in the world.   Now,  this was a guy 
     who  had come in country the same time as myself.   A guy who  was 
     loveable  and  generous.   He had blue eyes and sandy blond  hair.  
     When he talked, it was with a soft drawl.  Flanigan was a hick and 
     he knew it.  That was part of his charm.  He didn't care.  Man,  I 
     loved this guy like the brother I never had. But, I screwed up.  I 
     got  too  close to him.   Maybe I didn't know any better.   But  I 
     broke  one  of  the unwritten rules of war.   DON'T GET  CLOSE  TO 
     PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO DIE.  Sometimes you can't help it.
     You  hear vets use the term "buddy"  when they refer to a guy they 
     spent the war with.   "Me an this buddy a mine .  .  ."   "Friend" 
     sounds  too intimate,  doesn't it.   "Friend"  calls up images  of 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 18
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     being close.   If he's a friend,  then you are going to be hurt if 
     he  dies,  and war hurts enough without adding to the  pain.   Get 
     close; get hurt.  It's as simple as that.
     In  war  you learn to keep people at that distance my  wife  talks 
     about.  You become so good at it,  that twenty years after the war 
     is  over,  you  still  do it without thinking.   You  won't  allow 
     yourself to be vulnerable again.
     My  wife  knows two people who can get into the soft spots  inside 
     me.   My daughters.   I know it probably bothers her that they can 
     do this.  It's not that I don't love my wife, I do.   She's put up 
     with  a lot from me.   She'll tell you that when she signed on for 
     better  or worse she had no idea there was going to be so much  of 
     the latter.  But with my daughters it's different.
     My girls are mine.  They'll always be my kids.  Not marriage,  not 
     distance,  not even death can change that.   They are something on 
     this  earth  that can never be taken away from me.   I  belong  to 
     them.   Nothing  can change that.   I can have an ex-wife;  but my 
     girls can never have an ex-father.  There's the difference.
     I  can still see the faces,  though they all seem to have the same 
     eyes.   When  I think of us I always see a line of "dirty  grunts" 
     sitting  on a paddy dike.   We're caught in that first gray silver 
     between darkness and light.   That first moment when we know we've 
     survived another night,  and the business of staying alive for one 
     more day is about to begin.   There was so much hope in that brief 
     space  of time.   It's what we used to pray for.   "One more  day, 
     God. One more day."
     And  I  can  hear our conversations as if they'd  only  just  been 
     spoken.  I still hear the way we sounded,  the hard cynical jokes, 
     our morbid senses of humor.  We were scared to death of dying, and 
     trying our best not to show it.
     I recall the smells,  too.   Like the way cordite hangs on the air 
     after  a fire-fight.   Or the pungent odor of rice paddy mud.   So 
     different  from  the black dirt of Iowa.   The mud of  Nam  smells 
     ancient, somehow.  Like it's always been there.
     And I'll never forget the way blood smells, stick and drying on my 
     hands.   I  spent a long night that way once.   That memory  isn't 
     going anywhere.
     I  remember how the night jungle appears almost dream like as  the 
     pilot of a Cessna buzzes overhead, dropping parachute flares until 
     morning.   That  artificial sun would flicker and make shadows run 
     through the jungle.   It was worse than not being able to see what 
     was out there sometimes.   I remember once looking at the man next 
     to  me as a flare floated overhead.   The shadows around his  eyes 
     were  so deep that it looked like his eyes were gone.   I  reached 
     over and touched him on the arm;  without looking at me he touched 
     my hand.  "I know man.   I now."   That's what he said.   It was a 
     human moment.   Two guys a long way from home and scared sh*tless. 
     "I know man."  And at that moment he did.
     God I loved those guys.   I hurt every time one of them died.   We 
     all  did.   Despite  our posturing.   Despite our desire  to  stay 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 19
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     disconnected,  we couldn't hep ourselves.   I know why Tim O'Brien 
     writes  his stories.   I know what gives Bruce Weigle the words to 
     create poems so honest I cry at their horrible beauty.  It's love.  
     Love for those guys we shared the experience with.
     We  did our jobs like good soldiers,  and we tried our best not to 
     become  as  hard as our surroundings.   We touched each other  and 
     said, "I know."   Like a mother holding a child in the middle of a 
     nightmare,  "It's  going to be all right."   We tried not to  lose 
     touch with our humanity.   We tried to walk that line.   To be the 
     good boys our parents had raised and not to give into that unnamed 
     thing we knew was inside us all.
     You  want to know what frightening is?   It's a nineteen-year-old-
     boy  who's  had a sip of that power over life and death  that  war 
     gives  you.   It's  a boy who,  despite all the things  he's  been 
     taught,  knows  that he likes it.   It's a nineteen-year-old who's 
     just lost a friend, and is angry and scared and,  determined that, 
     "Some *@#*s gonna pay."  To this day,  the thought of that boy can 
     wake me from a sound sleep and leave me staring at the ceiling.
     As  I write this,  I have a picture in front of me.   It's of  two 
     young  men.   One  their  laps  are tablets.   One  is  smoking  a 
     cigarette.  Both stare without expression at the camera.   They're 
     writing  letters.   Staying in touch with places they would rather 
     be.  Places and people they hope to see again.
     The  picture  shares space in a frame with one of  my  wife.   She 
     doesn't  mind.   She knows she's been included in special company.  
     She  knows I'll always love those guys who shared that part of  my 
     life, a part she never can.   And she understands how I feel about 
     the ones I know are out there yet.   The ones who still answer the 
     question, "When were you in Vietnam?"
     "Hey, man.  I was there just last night."

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 20
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                    Veterans Day at The Wall  11/11/94
                    By Gustav Niebuhr -  New York Times
                          Submitted by Jeff Beer
                      VETLink #50 - Fairfield Bay, AR
                              (501) 884-6277
     WASHINGTON -- Americans have long revered places that they link to 
     the shaping of their national identity: the bridge at Concord, the 
     Alamo,  the  hulk of the battleship Arizona at Pearl  Harbor.  Few 
     pieces  of ground are so hallowed as Gettysburg,  where the  Civil 
     War battle and Lincoln's address paired national unity and purpose 
     in a way that is seen as almost mystical.
     But  veneration occasionally imparts something more to a  hallowed 
     site: a spiritual dimension that transforms it into something like 
     a sacred shrine,  where pilgrims come and devotions are paid.  For 
     generations,  Gettysburg  was such a place.  The Vietnam  Veterans 
     Memorial,  several  scholars  of  religion  and  culture  say,  is 
     becoming one now.
     ''It's an altar,'' said Conrad Cherry,  director of the Center for 
     the  Study of Religion and American Culture at Indiana University-
     Purdue   University  at  Indianapolis.   ''You  approach  it  with 
     reverence  and respect and silence.  The supreme sacrifice is very 
     much there.''
     The  memorial's  appearance is starkly dramatic.  A pair of  black 
     polished  granite  walls,  devoid of all but rows of names of  the 
     58,196  American men and women who died in Vietnam,  are set  into 
     the  ground of the Washington Mall so that they are invisible from 
     the rear. The walls meet to form a V,  its arms embracing a broad, 
     sloping  piece  of ground to create a thin boundary that  narrowly 
     separates the living from the dead.
     Controversial  for its unconventional design when it was  unveiled 
     in  1982,  the  memorial  for years has drawn more  visitors  than 
     either the Washington Monument or the Lincoln Memorial.
     ''People  make  pilgrimages  --  which is what people  do  at  the 
     Vietnam Veterans Memorial --  to be transformed intellectually and 
     spiritually  at  a  place of power,''  said  Edward  Linenthal,  a 
     professor  of  religion and American culture at the University  of 
     Wisconsin,  at  Oshkosh,  who  is the author of  ''Sacred  Ground: 
     Americans and Their Battlefields'' (University of Illinois Press).
     Visitors often approach the memorial in a reverential hush.  Some, 
     park  rangers say,  are so overcome with emotion that they stop in 
     their tracks, never to come closer.  Some touch names inscribed in 
     the  walls.  Many  leave  personal  items:  photographs,   stuffed 
     animals, combat boots, or other tokens of a life.
     Authorities  on  religion  and  culture  liken  this  to  people's 
     behavior  at sites considered holy in a religious sense:  Lourdes, 
     the Western Wall in Jerusalem, major Buddhist shrines.
     ''The  kinds of things people do there,''  Linenthal  said,  ''are 
     acts  of  commemoration --  touching the names,  leaving  flowers, 
     photos, flags. Those are the things people do in sacred places.''
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 21
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     THAT IS NOT what the monument's creators envisioned,  but they are 
     certainly  intrigued by it.  ''Here's essentially what is designed 
     to  be a military memorial commemorating people who took part in a 
     military effort, and it's been transformed into a national shrine, 
     where  all  these  feelings come alive,''  said  Jan  C.  Scruggs, 
     president  of  the  Vietnam Veterans  Memorial  Fund,  the  former 
     infantry  corporal  who  led the campaign for a  memorial  to  the 
     Vietnam dead.
     Because today is Veterans Day,  when attendance at the memorial is 
     particularly heavy,  Ron Stufflebean of St.  Joseph,  Mo.,  worked 
     there  as  a Park Service volunteer all this week.  He  said  many 
     people  who stand for a while looking at an individual name  often 
     say they ''can see the reflection of that person in the granite.''
     His  wife,  Paula,  said the couple had known men whose names  are 
     listed there.  Last year,  she made a Christmas wreath,  decorated 
     it  with a wedding bouquet and handmade baby booties,  and brought 
     it  to  the memorial.  ''I typed up a letter,''  she  said,  ''and 
     framed it and put it in the wreath. It said,  'For all the men and 
     women, for what they missed in life.' ''
     Such   gifts  have  set  the  memorial  apart  from  most  secular 
     monuments, instead inviting comparisons to religious shrines.
     ''It's  a way to communicate with people who died,''  said  George 
     Mayo,  a Washington lawyer who is a director of the memorial fund. 
     And, he said, because many visitors also bring along tracing paper 
     to  make impressions of individual names,  ''you take away part of 
     the memorial with you.''
     Since  the memorial opened 12 years ago,  visitors have left  more 
     than 30,000 items, said Duery Felton, a Vietnam veteran who serves 
     as curator of these objects for the Park Service,  which collects, 
     catalogs,  and  stores  all  but  the  flowers,   since  they  are 
     On  Wednesday afternoon,  objects placed at the memorial  included 
     several  bouquets;  four  copies of a poem,  each addressed  to  a 
     different soldier; a photograph of a young girl; and a small stack 
     of metal bracelets engraved with the names of prisoners of war.
     Morris Brevard, a ranger at the memorial who served as a Marine in 
     the invasion of Panama and the Persian Gulf war,  said that he had 
     come across athletic trophies, military medals, a tomahawk,  and a 
     half-empty  wine  bottle with two glasses.  Brevard said that  one 
     woman had once brought small cans of fruit cocktail --  a favorite 
     of her son, whose name is among the thousands --  and that another 
     had brought a birthday cake and lighted a candle.
     ''It's  a  place  of  healing,''  he  said.   ''It's  a  place  of 
     WALKING WITH a visitor the length of the memorial,  Brevard passed 
     its apex, where the list of names rises highest.  ''You notice how 
     quiet it got at the center?'' he said.
     Others too have commented on this. The Rev. Philip Salois, who was 
     an  infantryman  in  Vietnam and is now a Roman  Catholic  priest, 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 22
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     likened the experience to that of visiting a cemetery. ''Everybody 
     speaks in hushed tones,'' said Salois,  chief of chaplain services 
     at  the Veterans Affairs Medical Center,  in Boston.  ''It's  that 
     aura of mystique, that mysticism.''
     Thomas  A.  Tweed,   a  professor  of  religious  studies  at  the 
     University of North Carolina,  observed that ''almost any time you 
     go,  someone  is there grieving.''  That keeps fresh the memory of 
     Vietnam itself, he said. 
     ''That's the way a lot of shrines work,'' Tweed said.  ''It's very 
     powerful, very fundamental stuff.''

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 23
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                                Family Ties
                              By Gjoseph Peck
                         NamVet's Managing Editor
                          VETLink #1 - Tampa, FL
                              (813) 249-8323
                          NamVet 2-4   2 Apr 1988
     Gently, so as not to make too much noise, she approaches the black 
     granite  that  rises,  behemoth-like,  from the grassy  Washington 
     Mall.  She feels better coming alone and at night.
     On her left, appearing as if it would speak at any moment,  is the 
     Lincoln Memorial;   light seeming to come from nowhere makes it as 
     though a beacon in the darkness.  To her right, towering high,  is 
     the  Washington Monument.   She can hear the precise steps of  the 
     military honor guard as it performs its vigilant duty at The Wall.  
     A  National  Park Service attendant,  small light shining  on  the 
     Directory of Names, stands somber watch.
     "Wilbee Simmons,  Sir?   Could you tell me where I'd find his name 
     listed?"  The Park Attendant directs her to the west panels.
     Slowly, fearfully,  yet mustering every bit of her strength,  Teri 
     looks carefully for the name of her husband.
     There's something about the way the Washington lights reflect from 
     The  Wall that remind her of the song Wilbee dedicated to her  way 
     back when they were only in their early years of high school.
     Building;  preparing;  steeling herself for the moment that HAS to 
     come, she quietly hums to herself their familiar tune:  "Ca-atch a 
     falling star and put it in your pocket,  never let it fade away... 
     Ca-atch a.." -  and then she came upon it.
     Hand shaking almost uncontrollably, she reaches over and begins to 
     trace the letters...   W I L .  .  .    Eyes watering,  it starts. 
     Release.  Blessed release.  She hasn't cried like this since she'd 
     received the telegram.   She'd had to be strong for the kids sake.  
     Now she can let the tears - and Wilbee - go.
     "Wilbee,  Darling,  you  ARE a part of American history,  a living 
     part.  Here's John's name;  and Gary's;  and Jim's ...  all of the 
     soldiers  you wrote me about.   Each of you followed your  fathers 
     and  family into service -  and America's defense.   Your brothers 
     and  sisters who made it back took upon their shoulders the battle 
     begun  by their grandfathers after World War I helping America  to 
     always,  always  keep her promise to care for those who put  their 
     lives on-the-line for her.  Everyone says that you and all Vietnam 
     veterans are the toughest, most persistent and determined veterans 
     in all American history -  and they're right!   It's guys like you 
     and your friends who gave EVERYTHING,  Wilbee,  and those who made 
     it back, who help continue building the America we have today, and 
     the  responsible care for America's veterans that our grandfathers 
     fought for.
     I remember when they used to tell us how the veterans of World War 
     I  were  put  on what we today would call the  welfare  rolls  and 
     looked  down  upon  -  and nearly every benefit  they  sought  was 
     denied.   The  inadequate  War Risk Bureau,  Board  of  Vocational 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 24
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     Training  and Public Health Services,  in addition to so much more 
     insensitivity,  denial,  and corruption of the Federal Government, 
     made  them march on Washington.   I know you saw your brothers and 
     sisters do a similar thing when they all came here to sharply prod 
     the  conscience of America and this monument was dedicated.  I can 
     tell you're part of the same family - only you're tougher.
     I  brought  the poem you wrote when you went to  'Nam,  Wilbee.  I 
     remember how much it meant to you.   I've saved it all these years 
     -  and  I'll  leave  it  here for you when  I  go.   I've  got  it 
     memorized.  It's Easter now,  a time of new beginnings,  a time to 
     get  on with living my life in a way that would make you proud  of 
     me, a time to take the best that you've given - and go forward.
     I'm glad I got the chance to come here - to visit, to remember, to 
     use those "Falling Stars"  you and I put in our pockets years ago; 
     many  rainy days I've used them.   Somehow,  I have a little  more 
     strength now to help me through my life.
     Thank you, Wilbee Simmons.   Remember I'll always love you and the 
     sacrifices you made for me and everybody."
     Stepping back from the polished granite, Teri softly places a card 
     from  her  and the two children,  a flag,  some flowers,  and  the 
     often-read  12-line poem on the ground in front of Wilbee  Simmons 
                This is my country!  So beautiful and Free!
                     A Land of Freedom for you and me!
                  Where men have fought and men have died
                So that we may LIVE and share their pride;
              That this Country of ours, so great and strong,
                 May unite again and sing a together song!
                   Let us be brothers and join together
                 To make our Nation - just a little better
               May we learn to forgive and forget our hates
                   And never close our shining gates ...
                May Liberty's torch light the world around
           And in ALL the nations - may Freedom's echo resound!
     Teri  turned,  began to walk away.   A bright flash in the western 
     sky quickly caught her eye.  A falling star - streaking, as though 
     an arrow, over the Lincoln Memorial.
     And she remembered the words Lincoln once said:   "To care for him 
     who  shall  have  borne the battle,  and for his  widow,  and  his 
     "Maybe  tomorrow I'll ask the Veterans Administration if they  can 
     help.  After all, my husband did give his life -  and our children 
     did  give their father -  so that we could all continue to live in 
     freedom.  Why didn't I think of that before?"
     Humming  to  herself  another  one of  their  old-time  favorites, 
     "That's  the story of,  that's the glory of...  Love",  Teri moves 
     along the walkway towards the Washington city lights...

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 25
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

               Millions of Veterans are Counting on Congress
     To make certain veterans' health-care is a partner in health-care 
     The personal price of war is high.  It can last a lifetime.  In 
     fact, many who served our country in time of need, now are in need 
     themselves.  For millions of veterans VA is a vital, irreplaceable 
     health-care resource.
     As you debate national health-care reform:
          *    Veterans who choose VA must be assured - just like all 
               other Americans - they will receive a guaranteed, 
               comprehensive benefits package.  Congress must reform 
               VA's spotty and inefficient eligibility system.
          *    Veterans must know VA funding always will be there to 
               provide the services they need.
          *    Veterans must be assured VA will receive resources 
               necessary to correct years of inadequate funding and 
               revamp its service delivery system.
          *    Veterans must be confident that VA will maintain its 
               unique specialized missions in rehabilitation, 
               prosthetics, spinal cord injury, blindness, aging, 
               mental health and long-term care.
          *    Veterans must know the VA health-care system will 
               continue to be a major national asset in medical 
               education and research, and a vital back-up to 
               Department of Defense medicine in time of national 
                            The American Legion 
           AMVETS (American Veterans of WWII, Korea and Vietnam) 
                       Blinded Veterans Association 
                        Disabled American Veterans 
                      Jewish War Veterans of the USA 
          Military Order of the Purple Heart of the U.S.A., Inc. 
             Non Commissioned Officers Association of the USA 
                       Paralyzed Veterans of America 
               Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States 
                     Vietnam Veterans of America, Inc.

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 26
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                              Let my people go!

                    MIA/POWs.  Does anyone REALLY care?
                               By Paul Bylin
                      NamVet's MIA/POW Section Editor
                         VETLink #84 - Peabody, MA
                              (508) 977-9756
     As I write this article, I am sitting in my office enjoying a cool 
     breeze on one of the hottest summer days to hit this area in many 
     The cool breeze reminds me of some of the quiet nights in Vietnam.  
     I can still remember being in a bunker, watching the sun go down, 
     and enjoying the breeze.  One of the few pleasures.
     I can also remember, on those same nights, when the sun was down 
     and the moon was high.  The clearness of the sky.  How bright the 
     stars seemed to be.  When I looked at the stars, I would wonder if 
     my family or friends were looking at that same star as I was.  It 
     kind of made me feel a little closer to home, where I wanted to 
     be.  At 18 years old, I didn't know much, but I did know that I 
     did not want to be there.  Although I was there, with some guys 
     that I will never forget.  My brothers.
     But, I survived my time in Vietnam, like many others.  Only to 
     come home to another kind of war.  A war in which, I felt I was 
     the enemy.  People making accusations, and some refusing jobs to 
     us.  I couldn't understand why, and I still don't.  So whenever I 
     was asked about my military service on a job application, I would 
     put down my service.  With one exception.  I would never say I 
     served in Vietnam.  Ashamed?  Maybe.
     Many years had come and gone.  I had changed jobs more times than 
     I can remember.  Then one day, I settled down with a job as an 
     aircraft re-fuel mechanic.  Been at that job for about 18 years. 
     During the summer of 1991, I found myself staring at a pretty 
     dingy looking photograph of three flyers that were, supposedly, 
     still alive in Vietnam.  As I read the story, what the families 
     had been going through since the end of the war.....I felt some of 
     the feelings I had when I was there.  Jesus, I have to do 
     something....but what?
     The thoughts, the smell, the "feel" of Vietnam had never left me. 
     Not for a day.  I seldom talked about any of this with anyone. No 
     one cared then.  They sure as hell don't give a damn now.  So why 
     even try.
     Many thoughts started racing through my mind as I stared at that 
     photograph.  What the hell is going on?  Why haven't we brought 
     these guys home??  What is being done??
     For a few days, I guess you could say I had "gone away" in my 
     mind.  Thinking, wondering about this...what can I do??  Can I do 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 27
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     My brother-in-law and I had not spoken in probably 15 years or so.  
     My wife was talking to her sister one day and was telling her 
     about what was happening to me.  A few nights later, my brother-
     in-law was at my door wanting to talk to me about what was going 
     on.  I guess you could say he pointed me in the right direction.  
     We became a "team" when it came to the POW/MIA issue.
     Petitions, local TV shows, hundreds upon hundreds of letters 
     written.  None of this was having an affect on anyone.  Meetings 
     with two Congressmen, demanding, pleading, talking with reporters, 
     calling radio talk shows.  NO ONE really CARES.  Not even the 
     President.  He did lift the trade embargo against Vietnam.  He did 
     this with the advice of a couple of Vietnam veterans who felt they 
     knew what was best for the families of the missing.  After all, 
     what do the families know?  They don't have a seat in the Senate.
     One of those Vietnam veterans, is Senator John Kerry from 
     Massachusetts.  He advised President Clinton to lift the trade 
     embargo because of the "cooperation" the Vietnamese were giving 
     I wonder if the "good" Senator did that because he felt in his 
     heart that the Vietnamese REALLY were cooperating to their best 
     capability?  Or,  could it be that the "good" Senator has family 
     that is in Vietnam, handling many of the industrial real estate 
     deals, now that he got the trade embargo lifted?
     Sitting here in my office, enjoying the cool breeze.  Wondering, 
     still, what can I do?  Does ANYONE care??  Looking outside the 
     window, I see the moon is high in the sky.  As I look at the first 
     star I see, I wonder?  Are any still alive?  If so, are they 
     looking at the same star as I am?  What can I do?
                                Paul Bylin
                          MIA/POW Section Editor

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 28
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                          By Jose Proenza Sanfiel
                          VETLink #1 - Tampa, FL
                              (813) 249-8323
       The  above  question  has  been asked by many and  it  has  been 
     answered by very few the reason it seem's to be that every one has 
     doubts  to their abilities and some few do decide to act therefore 
     making a difference.
       Friends I'm trying to ensure that the Quote:  POW's &  MIA's you 
     are not forgotten!! Does not become a meaningless  cliche.
       Friends I'm trying to ensure that the POW's & MIA's message gets 
     carried to the doorstep of all Americans and to the hands of every 
     foreigner that holds a map of the USA.
       My plan is simple and sure. To rename Interstates throughout the 
     nation  that will bear the name.  POW's &  MIA's Interstate's  one 
     from  the South Eastern most corner of the US to the North Western 
     Corner  of the US.  The other From the South Western most part  of 
     the  US to the North Eastern corner of the US.  These  Interstates 
     would  crisscross at the Imaginary Heart of America  (St Louis Mo) 
     and  in this manner we could remind ourselves and the Folks abroad 
     that we Really do not forget our Heroes's.
                       WILL MY EFFORT REALLY COUNT?
       Well  friend  I  asked myself the question and  answered  it  by 
     taking  action.  Such  action led to my Home address  (St)  to  be 
     renamed  POW's &  MIA's MEMORIAL DR....  THE SAME EFFORT LED ME TO 
       My  efforts also have on the Senate of the US a legislative bill  
     (S-900) that will make this dream of mine a reality.
       BUT AND ONLY IF.... .... I could reach a few dedicated Americans 
     that  are  willing  to take a few minutes and request  that  their 
     Senator's  and Congressperson Unite themselves with Senator Connie 
     Mack(r)  From Fla.  to co-sponsor Senate Bill 900.  This dedicated 
     American's  must  be willing to write not only one letter  but  to 
     continue  bugging their Legislator until he/she does become a  Co-
     sponsor of the bill.
       I  need  the  Help of my fellow Americans out there to  do  this 
     because  I have done everything possible that could be done so  it 
     is really up to others.  AND THAT IS YOU !!!!!
     THE BOY'S HOME???
       Then  think  about this....   EVEN JESUS CHRIST HAD A  MESSENGER 
     THAT PREPARED THE ROAD FOR HIS ARRIVAL.   (is in the bible look it 
     up if you wish ).
       Friends I appreciate all the suggestions (please don't stop) but 
     I really have gone the whole route...  regardless of how you think 
     I should do this or whom should I write it will all be for nothing 
     if  you  do not take it upon yourself to write to Washington  D.C. 
     until  they  Co-Sponsor  the Bill and if you do not take  it  upon 
     yourself to tell others in your home State.
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 29
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     For More information send LEGAL SIZED S.A.S.E TO:
                     POW's & MIA's PROJECT INTERSTATE
                      4230 POW's & MIA's MEMORIAL DR
                        ST CLOUD FLA USA 34772-8142
               407-892-9006 VOICE  / 407-957-MIAS Fax & data
     SASE  Means Self addressed Self Stamped Envelope if you don't send 
     one you will get an answer when ever I can spring a few beans from 
     my family's budget (since I don't ask for donations under guise of 
     POW's & MIA's sake).
     You  send a SASE well it gets send out in spurts but much  quicker 
     than if you did not.
     God  Bless America.  God bless America Again and may God Bless our 
     POW's & MIA's. 
                                Semper Fi. 
                                 Cpl Pro.

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 30
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                         W       W          M     M
                         W       W         M M   M M
                         W       W   \ /   M  M M  M
                  OOOO   W   W   W  --*--  M   M   M   IIII
                 O    O  W  W W  W   / \   M       M    II
                 O    O  W W   W W         M       M    II
                 O    O   W     W          M       M    II
                 O    O                                 II
       PPPPPP    O    O            .....                II       AA
       PP   PP    OOOO        .  ''       '' ..        IIII    A    A
       PP    PP            ..'                  '..            A    A
       PPPPPPP          ..'                        ''.         A    A
       PP            ..'                              '.       AAAAAA
       PP          .'                                  ''.     A    A
       PP         .'                                      '.   A    A
                .'                   .:::::..              '.
               .'                  .::::::::::.              '
              .'                 .::::::::::::::.             '.
             .'       __       .::::::::::::::::;:...          '.
            .'      _-  -_   .:::::::::::::::::::::::.          '.
           .'     _-_ _ _ -_ ::::::::::::::::::::::::'           '.
          ..    _- -!!___!!!-_:::::::::::::::::::::::.            ..
          .'       ==_ _- _= .::::::::::::::::::::::::            ',
          .        =-_= _= = ::::::::::::::::::::::::              .
          .'       =-_ =_- = :::::::::::::::::::::::              '.
          .'       = - -_ =_:::::::::::::::::::::.                '.
          .'       -_ -_- .:::::::::::::::::::;;;.                '.
          .'      _-_  ..::::::::::::::::::::::::;                '.
          .     _ _  .:;:::::::::::::::::::::;,                    .
           '    _  .:::::::::::::::::::::::::.                    '.
        Y  .'.....::::::::::::::::::::::::::;'                    '. N
           ::::::::::::::::::::::::'    `'''                      ':
         O `:::::::::::::::::::::::           \v/          \ /    :'E
            `:::::::::::::::::::::: ===========================  :'
           U `:::::::::::::::::::::.          /^\            \  :'T
               `::::::::::::::::::::                          .:
               A `::::::::::::::::::                        .:'T
                  `::::::::::::::::::.                    .;'
                  R `:::::::::::::::::.                 .;' T
                      `::::::::::::::::.              .;'
                      E `:::::::::gjp:::            .:'  O
                          `:::::::::::::...........'' G
                          N   O   T       F   O   R
                       " Bring them home --- NOW !!! "

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 31
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                     How will the Vietnam War end?
                               By Paul Bylin
                      NamVet's MIA/POW Section Editor
                         VETLink #84 - Peabody, MA
                               (508) 977-9756
     There  have  been  committee's that have investigated  the  POW/MIA 
     issue,  and  all have come to the same conclusion..."Men were  left 
     behind,  but  we have no evidence that shows any survived."  If men 
     were left behind, do we have evidence they are NOT alive?
     This country has evidence that many were alive after the end of the 
     war.   As  a  matter  of fact,  the United  States  Government  has 
     evidence  that  men were still alive in the late 1980's  and  early 
     1990's.  The evidence they have are satellite photographs of `Pilot 
     Authenticator Codes'.  Each pilot was assigned their own individual 
     Authenticator  Code.   The purpose was for the identification of  a 
     pilot,  if  they were shot down.   The pilot had been instructed to 
     make  this code visible.   They were to do it in such a manner that 
     it could be seen from the air, but yet, not be seen by the enemy.
     Many  of  these locator codes had been photographed  by  government 
     satellites.   These locator codes were correlated to the pilot that 
     was  shot down.   Some locator codes were photographed not once but 
     twice,  and  not  in the same area.   The reason could be that  the 
     prisoner had been moved.  Normal procedure for the Vietnamese.  All 
     these   photographs   of  locator  codes  were  dismissed  by   the 
     government.  They said they were either shadows,  plant growth,  or 
     the  best one anomalies,  which Websters describes as 1.  departure 
     from  the  regular  arrangement.   (Although  the  government  says 
     anomalies is "something that is not there.") Many experts that have 
     examined  the images found in the satellite photography agree  that 
     they are real, not just shadows or vegetation growth.
     One authenticator code, the USA K code, that was found stamped into 
     a rice paddy in Laos,  had been ignored for more that a year before 
     any type of investigation had been implemented.
     One  of Senator Kerry's trips to Southeast Asia was to  investigate 
     this issue.  He visited a prison camp, and while there,  he found a 
     message  written in English on a wall in one of the cells.   It was 
     dated April 23, 1988,  and read,  "We do live under the darkness of 
     Socialist hands now - We don't have a chance".  This was not widely 
     publicized and was not brought up at the senators' news conference.
     So  much of this evidence,  however small it may seem,  is  exactly 
     what it appears to be...evidence.  Even the Senate Select Committee 
     on  POW MIA Affairs,  with all the controversy that had  surrounded 
     it,  came to the conclusion that men WERE left behind after the war 
     ended.   The  committee did also say they had no evidence that  any 
     particular American is still alive.
     And so the committee ended.
     Senator  Kerry and Senator John McCain (another former panel member 
     of  the Senate Select Committee on POW MIA Affairs)  fought hard to 
     get an amendment passed by congress so President Clinton could lift 
     the economic trade embargo against Vietnam.
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 32
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     On  February  2,   1994  President  Clinton  was  holding  a  press 
     conference  at  the White House.   A reporter asked him if  he  was 
     going  to  lift  the  19-year old economic  trade  embargo  against 
     Vietnam.   The presidents response was,  "I do not know,  I haven't 
     even  read  the  Kerry -  McCain Amendment  yet."   The  very  next 
     morning,  President  Bill Clinton lifted the trade embargo  against 
     Vietnam.    The   president  said  he  believed  that  Vietnam  was 
     cooperating as much as possible.
     If  the  Vietnamese are cooperating as much as the  president,  and 
     Senator John Kerry claim,  then why won't the Vietnamese government 
     tell  us what happened to the men that we KNOW were  captured,  but 
     never returned?
     The   Vietnamese  have  turned  over,   literally,   thousands   of 
     photographs  of  American  servicemen.   Some  of  these  men  were 
     photographed after they were killed.  But, still, their bodies were 
     laid out,  pockets emptied,  and all their personal belongings were 
     photographed.  This was for the Vietnamese records.  They wanted to 
     be  able to account for these people some day.   What other  reason 
     would there be for this type of records?  They wanted to be able to 
     prove some of the Americans they captured had died.
     But  what about the Americans that they held in captivity after the 
     war?  What type of records did they keep on them?
     I  am sure they are NO LESS than the records they kept on the  ones 
     that died.
     Is  the  United  States government asking for  these  records?   If 
     not...then why the hell not??
     If  they  are asking about these records,  what are the  Vietnamese 
     telling them?  Surely, if they are saying they don't have any, they 
     must  be lying.   One would have to assume that because  throughout 
     the years, Vietnam insisted they had `no records' of any Americans.  
     But,  they have their museums full of photographs of American POWs, 
     their weapons, parts of aircraft, uniforms,  rings,  watches,  etc, 
     etc.  The list goes on and on.
     While  in Vietnam investigating the POW issue,  former  congressman 
     Billy Hendon stumbled on a hidden prison.   A prison that,  back in 
     the  1980's  had supposedly held American  prisoners.   Mr.  Hendon 
     asked  to  visit  and  inspect  that  prison.   Not  only  did  the 
     Vietnamese  deny his request,  they also said his visa had expired, 
     and  told him he would have to leave the country.   The  Vietnamese 
     not only said he (Billy Hendon) could not go inside the prison, but 
     also said they would NOT allow the U.S. governments MIA team inside 
     the facility.
     But we continue to help the Vietnamese government.  Why?   Where is 
     the cooperation so many U.S. politicians speak of? 
     We  cannot let this POW/MIA issue end in this manner.   If there is 
     even  a  remote  possibility that Vietnam is  holding,  or  knowing 
     where, a live American is being held, we should share no expense in 
     bringing them home.
     Ones  that  were  known  to have been  captured  alive,  but  never 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 33
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     returned, the Vietnamese government knows where their remains are.
     To simply put it, If Vietnam has, or knows where any live Americans 
     are being held.  Give them back.  If all are no longer alive,  then 
     give  us their remains or a reasonable explanation why they  cannot 
     return  their  remains.   Once that is done,  then Vietnam and  the 
     United States can do business in whatever manner they wish, without 
     any noise from the families and the veteran community.
                                 Paul Bylin
                           MIA/POW Section Editor

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 34
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                     U.S. GOVERNMENT COVER-UP EXPOSED
                               By Paul Bylin
                      NamVet's MIA/POW Section Editor
                         VETLink #84 - Peabody, MA
                              (508) 977-9756
     Talking  with  Joyce Flory (VETLink 13),  she asked me  about  the 
     Chicago chapter of VietNow selling a video about the POW issue. It 
     asked  that  the  ad  for this video  be  made  available  through 
     Newsletters, display racks, or sales tables in offices, etc.
       While I normally do not do any advertising in this Newsletter, I 
     felt  I should at least ask what this VietNow group was all about. 
     I  faxed a letter to them asking what they were doing with regards 
     to the POW issue, other than selling the video.  My response was a 
     phone  call  from Billy Hendon.   He told me that this  video  was 
     important  in a couple of ways.   First,  it would convince anyone 
     that seen it that,  1)  the Vietnamese government held hundreds of 
     U.S.  POWs  in  prison  long after  the  war;  and,  2)  the  U.S. 
     government  knew about it and covered it up.   Plus it would  help 
     him in his constant investigations and search's in Vietnam.
       If,  after you view this video,  your are not convinced that the 
     above statements (1 and 2) are true,  then simply return the video 
     and your money will be refunded, NO QUESTIONS ASKED!
       The video "U.S. Government Cover-Up Exposed",  is proof that the 
     Vietnamese held hundreds of U.S. POWs.   Many reported still alive 
     in the late 1980's.
       Citing previously secret U.S. intelligence documents, this video 
     settles the question once and for all.   See the shocking evidence 
     in  a  2-hour  videotaped  intelligence briefing  by  former  U.S. 
     Congressman Bill Hendon (R-NC) Mr. Hendon was a member of the U.S. 
     House POW/MIA Task Force, a Pentagon consultant on POW/MIA affairs 
     and  an  intelligence investigator assigned to the  Senate  Select 
     Committee  on  POW/MIA Affairs.   Americas leading expert  on  the 
     Vietnamese  prison system,  he has appeared on 60  Minutes,  Larry 
     King Live, 20/20, Today, Good Morning America,  Donahue,  Dateline 
     NBC, Unsolved Mysteries and on international television throughout 
     the world.
                            Mail Orders:
                            POW Publicity Fund
                            PO Box 65500
                            Washington DC 20035
          The cost is $19.95 plus $4.00 Shipping & Handling.
     15, 1994.
     The declassified U.S. Government intelligence in this briefing was 
     acquired  from the department of defense,  the CIA,  The  National 
     Archives and the Library of Congress in Washington, DC.
                                Paul Bylin
                     (I have already ordered my copy!)
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 35
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                          The Salem Evening News
                        Saturday, October 29, 1994
                          Submitted by Paul Bylin
                         VETLink #84 - Peabody, MA
                              (508) 977-9756
     Eerie, Pa. (AP)  -  Lee R.  Schaaf lived for more than two decades 
     carrying  a  piece  of  the Vietnam War in  his  heart,  a  bullet 
     eventually responsible for his death in 1990.
     His widow, Mary Glass Schaaf, wanted his name added to the Vietnam 
     Veterans Memorial in Washington,  D.C.   But it took her two years 
     to  convince  federal  officials that her husbands death  was  the 
     result of his war wounds.
     Next  Month -  25 years after the enemy bullet lodged in his heart 
     during a jungle firefight - Schaaf's name will be added.
     "He  would be very upset with me,"  Mrs. Schaaf said.   "He  never 
     wanted any recognition, and never, ever asked for any sympathy."
     The  former  infantryman's wife,  the couple's three children  and 
     about  30 other family members will visit Washington on Nov 11 for 
     a  Veterans  Day  ceremony that will mark the  additions  of  five 
     names.  The actual etching of Schaaf's name is expected to be done 
     Schaaf was wounded Sept.  5,  1969,  as he walked at the head of a 
     patrol  in  the jungle near Xuan Loc,  north of Ho Chi Minh  City, 
     which then was called Saigon, Mrs. Schaaf said.
     He  received the Purple Heart and Army Commendation Medal.   After 
     he returned home, he learned to walk with crutches and married his 
     high  school  sweetheart.   He  led  an active  life  but  endured 
     repeated  hospital  stays until his death at age 42 of a  swollen, 
     infected heart and fluid in the lungs.
     Since  the  memorial was dedicated in 1982,  257 names  have  been 
     added  from  thousands of applications,  said Libby Hatch  of  the 
     Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund,  which helps to maintain the wall. 
     The total stands at 58,196.

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 36
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     .       =DMZ=          Camp Carroll__Con Thien        =DMZ=         .
     .                             |___/  \_ Quang Tri                   .
     .                      Khe   (|  *  *  \                            .
     .                      Sanh-/\*  * Dong \Camp Evans                 .
     .                      (Hawk  \_/\  Ha  *\_ Hue                     .
     .                        LZ)   /  \_        \Phu Bai                .
     .                            Cam Lo \_Bastogne\_                    .
     .                                     \ An.     )Da Nang            .
     .                                    /   Hoa    \ (Marble           .
     .                                   (  -------   \_Mountain)        .
     .                                    \ I CORPS     \__              .
     .                                      \------ Hoi    \ Chu Lai     .
     .                                        \     An      !            .
     .                                       /\_____        !            .
     .                                      /       !    Duc \           .
     .                                      ! Ben   !___   Pho\          .
     .                                      ! Het       \/\____!         .
     .                                      !                 !English LZ.
     .                                     /      Pleiku      ! Bong     .
     .                                    / Camp             /   Son     .
     .             V I E T N A M          ! Holloway  Happy  \_Hammond   .
     .                                    !     Camp  Valley   \    LZ   .
     .                                     \    Enarl  An Khe   )        .
     .                                      \                Qui)        .
     .                                       \     \        Nhon\        .
     .                                       /    Oasis         /        .
     .                                      (                   !        .
     .                                      _\    --------      !        .
     .                                     /      II CORPS    Tuy\       .
     .                                     \      --------    Hoa \      .
     .                                      !                    /       .
     .                                    _/Ban Me              /        .
     .         ---------                _/  Thuot         Nha  /         .
     .         III CORPS       Song Be_/                  Trang!         .
     .         --------\Quan Loi  __/  \                       !         .
     .             Katum\_____( )/An Loc!             Dong Ba  !         .
     .                  /Dau    Loc Ninh!__              Thin  ! Cam     .
     .             Tay /Tieng              \                  / Ranh     .
     .             Ninh\     Phu  Phuoc Yinh\     Dalat      /   Bay     .
     .                  !     Loi            \            __/            .
     .            Lai Khe\--*  Di An          \       ___/ Phan          .
     .               Cu Chi\     Bien Hoa      \    _/      Rang         .
     .       / \_____)   )_(_Tan San  Long Binh !__/                     .
     .       !               ( Nhut  Bearcat ___/                        .
     .  _____! An Long        \__Long Thanh_/                            .
     . !                           | . \/  Long Giao                     .
     .  \___          My          /| \/ \  (Black Horse)                 .
     .      \         Tho  Dong  / |   \ Vung Tau                        .
     .       )Vinh Long     Tam /  |  Saigon                             .
     .      /                \\ ! Tan An                                 .
     .     /Can Tho   Phu  ___\\|                                        .
     .    /--------    Vinh                                              .
     .    !IV CORPS\ \     /                                             .
     .    !-------- \ \__/ (Due to rectangular restrictions of character .
     .    !  Soc    /       placements/positions, locations approximate) .
     .    ! Trang /                                                      .
     .    !   __/                                                        .
     .     \_/                                                    gjp    .
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 37
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                              The NamVet Chapel

                           Proper Perspective!!
                           By: Rev. Oscar Wilkie
                           DAV National Chaplain
                    In: DAV Magazine - Vol 32, Issue 5
                         Input by: G. Joseph Peck
                         NamVet's Managing Editor
                          VETLink #1 - Tampa, FL
                              (813) 249-8323
       Although  I  have  been  talking much in  recent  columns  about 
     "success," most people will admit that "failure"  is a more common 
       As  I thought it over,  it stimulated my thinking in this  whole 
     area  of "failure"  and how we deal with it.   It seems to me that 
     the  hope for success and the fear of failure are perhaps the  two 
     greatest burdens that most of us have to carry.
       Ours is a "win-lose" culture:  the ethos of our society invites, 
     motivates, and encourages us to be winners in life.  We live in an 
     age of executive game players,  super stars,  Nobel Prize winners, 
     bionic celebrities, and successful entrepreneurs who have captured 
     our imagination and attention.
       We all seem to feel the pressure to win at something,  sometime, 
     somewhere.   In  such  a culture,  there seems to be no  room  for 
     anyone  who  fails...  whether in sports, at the  office,  in  the
     classroom,  or at home.   We all sense this pressure to win at all 
     costs.   I  can  relate  to it in my own drive to be  a  "winner," 
     whether  on the golf course,  in my profession,  or as your  (DAV) 
     National Chaplain.
       Losing is depressing for most of us, but life does not afford us 
     the  luxury of choosing whether or not we are going to  play.   We 
     know what it is to fail, and what we need is a way to redeem those 
     failures.  We need to discover whatever there is to learn from our 
     losses.  There are a couple of things I would share with you.
       First, we need to learn that failure is a part of life.   No one 
     succeeds at every contest.  We need to discover that it is alright 
     to fail.  If the cause is important,  and if our efforts represent 
     our best, then we can find honor in having tried.   It seems to me 
     that  the ultimate tragedy in life is not failure.   The  ultimate 
     tragedy is to be unwilling to take risks when significant purposes 
     present themselves!
       I  think if someone is keeping score and "grading"  us on  life, 
     during   the  times  we  don't  quite  make  it  He  gives  us  an 
     "incomplete"  rather  than a "failure."   This means even when  we 
     fail on occasion, we are not "failures," just "incomplete"  in the 
     process of "becoming."  
       "Incomplete" means there is still room to grow.   Often we learn 
     more  from  our defeats than from our victories.   If we have  the 
     right attitude, "win, lose, or draw"  in our individual endeavors, 
     we can be moving forward!

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 38
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                            I                         88888
                          ITTTI                    o88888888
                          I   I                 o888888888888o 8888
                          I   I              888888888888888888888888
                          I   I             88888888888888888 8888 888
                         xI   Ix             8888888888888888 88888888
                         T III T              88888888888888 888888 88
                         I III I             8888888888888888 88888888
                        xI III Ix             888  888    88888888888'
                        T I   I T                           88888888
                        I I   I I                             8888
                       xI IIIII Ix
                       TI       IT
                       II       II
                       II       II                The Quiet Place
                      IT    |    TI
                     II   --|--   II
                    XIII    |    IIIX                 oooo    o
                   II I           I II             o88 888) (888)
                  II  I    IIII   I  II         o88  88888888 8888)
                 XII  I  II   II  I  IIX       (88      8 88 888888)
                XIII  III       III  IIIX      (8 8 8 88 88 88 8 888)
               XIIII  I           I  IIIIX      (88 8  8  8 88888888)
              II  II  I  xIIIIIx  I  II  II     ( 8 88     888 88888)
                  II  I  T  T  T  I  II        (8888 88 8 8 8888888)
                  II  I  I  I  I  I  II         (8 88888 888 88 88)
                  II  I  I  I  I  I  II          (8888)888 88888)
                  II  I  I II II  I  II            (8) (I8I8I) 8
       oo8888888o II  I  I  I  I  I  II                 IIIII        X
      8888888 888BII  I  I  I  I  I  IIXX                III      X XX
       88 88 88  BII  I  TIIIIIT  I  IIXXX               III     XXXXX
      888888   88BII  I    ....   I  IIXXXXXX            III    XXgXXX
     888 888888888XXXXXII    ...   IIXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX        XXXXXXjXX
                         II    ..    IIXXXXXXXXXXXXXX         XXXXXXpX
      The Vietnam Veteran XII          IIXXXXXXXXXXXXX         XXXXXXX
       has relatives in the  III        IIIXXXXXXXXXXXX         XXXXXX
       Old and New Testaments   III        IIIXXXXXXXXXX         XXXXX
       who also experienced loss   II         IIXXXXXXXXX          XXX
       and grief, guilt and shame,   II         IIXXXXXXXXX         XX
       rejection and betrayal,         I          IXXXXXXXXX
       alienation and estrangement,    I          IXXXX  XX
       isolation and withdrawal.        II          IIXXXX
                                          II          IIX
      Adam and Eve tried to hide from God; II          II
      Moses, born Hebrew and raised Egyptian IIII        IIII
       searched long and hard for his real self; II          II
      Job, losing his children and all he owned,   II          II
       became sorely diseased;                       IIII        III
      Biblical Joseph was rejected by his brothers,      II         II
       lied about and imprisoned;                          I
      Peter denied Jesus.                                    II
      "And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age"
                           Matthew 28:20
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 39
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                            Prepared ... but not

                           OH, How Far It's Come
                              by Joyce Flory
              NamVet's Incarcerated Veterans' Section Editor
           Desert Dolphin/VETLink #13 - Las Cruces, New Mexico
                (505) 523-2811 (Pre-Registration Required)
     Back about September of 1989 a message thread was running in IVVEC 
     about  incarcerated Vietnam veterans.   I was curious as to how  a 
     person went about finding a veteran to write to,  maybe brighten a 
     day  or  two,  or maybe send copies of the NAMVET  newsletter.   I 
     asked Gjoe how to go about this and was told, "Gee, Joyce, I don't 
     know.   Why  don't you look into it and let us know what you  find 
     Little  did I know what I was about to get myself into (grin).   I 
     collected  the names and addresses of any and all organizations  I 
     thought could help.   I put together a form letter and  sent out a 
     dozen  or so of them.   I got discouraged when the envelopes began 
     returning;  "No  Such Person",  "No Such Address",  or "Moved,  No 
     Forwarding  Address".   Almost as bad were the letters telling  me 
     that though they'd like to help, they didn't have any information.  
     I  think  the worst were the letters that told me the privacy  act 
     would  not  allow  them  to  release names  or  addresses  of  the 
     I  kept  sending letters and waiting  for  replies.   Finally,  in 
     November,  a  letter  arrived from the a national organization  in 
     Washington  D.C.   I thought it was going to be another rejection, 
     but NO, a name,  an address,  a START!   They told me this address 
     "fell  through the cracks"  and though I "didn't get it from them" 
     maybe it would help get me started. 
     Did  it ever!!!  I wrote to Mr.  Whitmarsh Bailey in Buena  Vista, 
     Colorado, explaining what I was trying to accomplish. In his  kind 
     response,  he gave me three more names.  Those three gentleman put 
     me  in  touch with other inmates in other prisons and the  program 
     grew.   Not quickly,  but by dribbles.   The pen-pal list expanded 
     with each new letter that crossed my mailbox.  Soon,  someone sent 
     me a "phone-book"  for the National Incarcerated Veterans Network.  
     My  form  letters  started flying across the  nation,  four  dozen 
     letters in the first mailing.  Soon, the replies were making their 
     way back to me.   So many incarcerated Vietnam veterans wanting to 
     be on my list!! 
     Many were just looking for someone to write to, some saying they'd 
     only  write  to  single  females,  others  looking  for  long-lost 
     buddies. Each so different, but so much the same.   Today the list 
     has  grown to over three hundred incarcerated vets in  thirty-five 
     prisons spanning eighteen states.  Two prisons in Alabama,  one in 
     Arkansas, three in Colorado, one in Connecticut,  four in Georgia, 
     two  in Indiana,  one in Kansas,  four in Massachusetts,  three in 
     Michigan, one in Missouri, two in New York,  three in Nevada,  one 
     in Ohio, one in Pennsylvania,  one in Tennessee,  two in Virginia, 
     two  in Washington,  and one in Wisconsin.   Just when I think  my 
     "reach"  has  stopped,  another inmate from another prison drops a 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 40
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     note to me. 
     I've  learned  a  lot about these gentlemen.   The  majority  give  
     unselfishly  of  themselves and their time.   Some men fill  their 
     hours  building doll houses and wooden toys to donate to Toys  For 
     Tots  or  to  be raffled off for local hospital  funds  for  dying 
     children.   Others  put together fund raisers to collect monies to 
     buy  food  or wood for the less fortunate,  year round,  not  just 
     during  the Holidays.   Still others sponsor the Special  Olympics 
     teams  in  their area.   I've been told of scholarship funding  to 
     local colleges, clothing drives,  and many "Scared Straight"  type 
     programs they volunteer to take part in. 
     While  involved in these programs,  many have chosen to go back to 
     school.   A  few are finishing high school,  some are taking  what 
     college  courses are available to them,  a couple are lucky enough 
     to be able to carry a full course load in the field they'd like to 
     pursue after their release.   They learn or teach trades;  cabinet 
     making, woodworking,  upholstering,  and some construction work to 
     enable themselves to make a living on the "outside". 
     They  are  concerned with most of the same things you and  I  are.  
     The shrinking economy, politics, changes in world order.  They put 
     together  newsletters about VA updates,  the MIA/POW issue,  PTSD, 
     Agent Orange,  relate stories,  and write poems,  much the same as 
     our NAMVET but with a much smaller readership.    
     I  have,  also,  learned that they prefer to being called "Vietnam 
     veterans,  incarcerated".   They tell me they were Nam vets first, 
     incarcerated second.   When not using that "title",  they refer to 
     themselves  as the "Forgotten Warriors",  stating that once behind 
     bars,  no  one cares about them.   Not their families,  not  their 
     friends, not other Vietnam veterans,  not their government.   They 
     can't  get  adequate health care,  they are denied the  counseling 
     they need for PTSD,  their VA benefits are nowhere near what other 
     veterans get, if they can get them at all.  And this just seems to 
     be the tip of the iceberg.        
     The more I wrote to these gentlemen, the more I became involved in 
     the  issues  that  concern  them.   File  upon  file  sits  in  my 
     "worktable"  on this computer with information found at one prison 
     to  be  passed onto another.   Copies  of  legislation,  sometimes 
     laying  dormant,  before  Congress,  copies of,  sometimes  bogus, 
     programs  for self-help in pre-release planning or PTSD  treatment 
     are  sent  to me either just for my information or with a plea  to 
     "Please look into to this".
     All this from one simple, innocent question.   What started out to 
     be  the  compiling  of a list of  Vietnam  veterans,  incarcerated 
     seeking  pen-pals,  has  gone on to be so much  more.   With  this 
     background of its beginnings,  I'll be telling you next of how I'm 
     becoming an advocate (admittedly reluctantly, at first)  on behalf 
     of  these gentlemen and their incarcerated veteran concerns.   For 
     me,  it's  already  been an interesting journey,  one that's  just 

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 41
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                     Imprisoned Vietnam vets have voice
                              By Susan Greene
                          Submitted by Joyce Flory
                    With Thanks to Avie Havelka-Caldwell
                        VETLink #13 - Las Cruces, NM
                               (505) 523-2811
     *   A  Henderson  woman  publishes a magazine that  addresses  the 
     problems facing those who served. 
     Avie Havelka-Caldwell is the unlikeliest of publishers.
     Having  never  touched  a word processor  before  last  year,  the 
     cocktail waitress and self-described "biker chick"  from Henderson 
     now  finds herself working up to 60 hours a week to put together a 
     magazine for Vietnam veterans in prisons throughout the country. 
     "They  are  the  other  POWs who have been put  behind  walls  and 
     forgotten,"  she  said  of the approximately 360,000  incarcerated 
     veterans of the Vietnam War.   "This is about giving them a voice, 
     showing them that what they have to say matters." 
     Havelka-Caldwell's interest in veterans' and inmates'  rights is a 
     very personal one. 
     Her  husband,  Bill Caldwell;  a 44-year-old Marine  veteran,  has 
     bounced in and out of prisons since returning in 1970 from duty in 
     Vietnam.  He is serving a four-year term for a parole violation at 
     the maximum-security federal prison in Leavenworth, Kan., where he 
     is  vice  president  of the 40-inmate Chapter 75  of  the  Vietnam 
     Veterans of America. 
     In  1992,  the chapter started a prisonwide newsletter called  The 
     Voice  of  Incarcerated Veterans to address issues concerning  its 
     "It  turned  out  that a lot of guys didn't even know  there  were 
     other  veterans in here,"  said Caldwell during a recent telephone 
     interview  from Leavenworth.   "The newsletter brought a lot of us 
     together  and  gave  a sense of  camaraderie  and  brotherhood,  a 
     feeling you had someone watching your back." 
     But,  after  the  Vietnam  Veterans  of  America  and  Leavenworth 
     officials  objected  to an article published in January about  the 
     need  for  conjugal visits,  the newsletter broke its  affiliation 
     with  the  veterans organization and went  independent.   Havelka-
     Caldwell then took over production,  changing the editorial policy 
     to  accept  all  submissions,   regardless  of  writing  style  or 
     viewpoint,   and   making  it  the  only  nationally   distributed 
     publication of its kind. 
     "I  want it to open discussion between veterans,  their  families, 
     prison  officials  and anyone else concerned,"  she  said.   "When 
     people write me, even if they're semi-illiterate,  I want to print 
     it exactly how they meant.  I'm not about to censor anyone." 
     Havelka-Caldwell  also  changed  the name of the magazine  to  The 
     Voice  of Veterans,  Incarcerated because,  she said,  "they  were 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 42
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     veterans before they became inmates.  That should come first." 
       In  the seven months she's been publishing the  magazine,  she's 
     spent about $7,000 of her money for supplies and equipment.   And, 
     with  the help of friend Daren Dobrzensky -  a computer consultant 
     from  Henderson who also puts in dozens of hours each week editing 
     and  formatting submissions -  she has increased circulation  from 
     800  inmates  to  1,400 inmates and organizations  throughout  the 
     Poems,  essays  and letters -  written by everyone from  murderers 
     doing  life  to  9-year-old nieces of veterans  -  address  issues 
     ranging   from  the  return  of  POW/MIAs  to  family  visitation, 
     disability benefits, Agent Orange-related problems, post-traumatic 
     stress disorder,  veterans'  counseling and support groups,  which 
     are available in most maximum security prisons. 
     In almost all submissions there is an undertone of frustration,  a 
     long-endured  feeling  of  anger and alienation  stemming  from  a 
     difficult homecoming more than 20 years ago. 
     "A  lot of us came home to being spit on,"  said Caldwell.   "With 
     all  that  pain,  the lies,  the rigmarole the government  put  us 
     through, it's easy to see why we got in trouble." 
     For Dobrzensky,  36,  working on the magazine has taught her about 
     what  so  many men have gone through since returning from duty  in 
     "I  used  to  be  under  the impression  that  these  guys  wanted 
     something for nothing, that they felt they weren't responsible for 
     their crimes because society owed them something," she said.  "But 
     now  I see all they're asking for is just their rights as veterans 
     and a chance to get back on their feet." 
     "If  this newsletter can help them achieve that,  then we're doing 
     our job right." 
     [JOYCE'S NOTE: Date of article unknown]
     JOYCE'S NOTE 2:  
     Articles  and  poems from this newsletter have been  published  in 
     past issues of NAM_VET. 
     If  anyone  would  like  to contribute,  be  it  a  submission  or 
     monetary,  or  subscribe to this newsletter (from an issue of  The 
     Voice of Veterans, Incarcerated):                                
     The Voice of Veterans, Incarcerated is a non-profit organization.
     The  Voice  of Veterans,  Incarcerated is distributed free to  all 
     incarcerated  veterans of the Vietnam Conflict,  but we still need 
     for  you  to  complete and return the form  below.   Families  and 
     others desiring to subscribe please submit $12.00 donation,  cash, 
     check, money order to, The Voice of Veterans,  Incarcerated 631 N. 
     Stephanie Street Box 195 Henderson, NV 89014.                    
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 43
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                             SUBSCRIPTION FORM
     Complete mailing addresses are required, please include your Zip+4 
     Subscriptions are $2.00 per issue or $12.00 a year 
     CITY, STATE, ZIP_________________________________________________ 
     The Voice of Veterans, Incarcerated, 631 N. Stephanie St. Box 195 
     Henderson, NV 89014 
     Number of issues desired:___________  Amount Enclosed:___________ 

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 44
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

       XXXXX           XXXXX                XXXXX                 XXXX
       XXXXX           XXXXX                XXXXX   \   \   \  \ \XXXX
       XXXXX           XXXXX.::::::::::::::.XXXXX  INCARCERATED   XXXX
       XXXXX           XXXXX   ---------    XXXXX \ \ \  \  \  \ \XXXX
       XXXXX          .XXXXX   W W   I I    XXXXX.   VETERANS \  \XXXX
       XXXXX         ::XXXXX   ---------    XXXXX::.  \  \  \   \ XXXX
       XXXXX        :::XXXXX -------------  XXXXX:::.             XXXX
       XXXXX       ::::XXXXX K  O  R  E  A  XXXXX::::             XXXX
       XXXXX       ::::XXXXX -------------  XXXXX::::             XXXX
       XXXXX       ::::XXXXX -------------  XXXXX::::             XXXX
       XXXXX       ::::XXXXX V I E T N A M  XXXXX::::             XXXX
       XXXXX       ::::XXXXX -------------  XXXXX::::             XXXX
       XXXXX       ::::XXXXX::::::::::::::::XXXXX::::             XXXX
       XXXXX       ::::XXXXX::::::::::::::::XXXXX::::             XXXX
       XXXXX       ::::XXXXX::'          `::XXXXX::::             XXXX
       XXXXX       ::::XXXXX::            ::XXXXX::::             XXXX
       XXXXX       ::::XXXXX  `..........''`XXXXX::::             XXXX
       XXXXX       ::::XXXXX .:(O) .  (O):. XXXXX:::'             XXXX
       XXXXX       ::' XXXXX       ..       XXXXX::               XXXX
       XXXXX      .:'  XXXXX     . ..       XXXXX:                XXXX
       XXXXX      ::   XXXXX    .  ..   `   XXXXX                 XXXX
       XXXXX      ::   XXXXX  '    '..   `  XXXXX.                XXXX
       XXXXX      ::   XXXXX"  '        `   XXXXX .               XXXX
       XXXXX      ``.  XXXXX  '  . . .    ` XXXXX  '. .........,  XXXX
       XXXXX       ::  XXXXX''  ..''.'''.   XXXXX    .'         '.XXXX
       XXXXX       ::  XXXXX"     ':.:''    XXXXX  .''       .:::'XXXX
       XXXXX       ::  XXXXX:..           .:XXXXX.''    .::::'   .XXXX
       XXXXX       ::  XXXXX   '..     ..:' XXXXX    ..:' .  .:::'XXXX
       XXXXX    ....::'XXXXX     ':::::;'   XXXXX  .:''. .:::'    XXXX
       XXXXX  .:::::'  XXXXX     .:         XXXXX :'. ..:...      XXXX
       XXXXX.::'   ::  XXXXX: PREPARED TO   XXXXX  .''      ''..  XXXX
       XXXXX::'    ::  XXXXX`:   FIGHT      XXXXX.'             '.XXXX
       XXXXX'      ::  XXXXX ``.            XXXXX                 XXXX
       XXXXX       ''  XXXXX  PREPARED TO   XXXXX                 XXXX
       XXXXX      ::   XXXXX      DIE   ...'XXXXX                 XXXX
       XXXXX      ::   XXXXX       `...'    XXXXX                 XXXX
       XXXXX     `..'  XXXXX        .'      XXXXX                 XXXX
       XXXXX           /\     .'         .'                       XXXX
       XXXXX         /\  \     .        .                         XXXX
       XXXXX        /  \  \...' `.     .'                         XXXX
       XXXXX       /     NOT PREPARED TO BE DESERTED              XXXX
       XXXXX      /       .'.' .  .`.'                            XXXX
       XXXXX     /    ~   | :  :  :    .                          XXXX
       XXXXX    /         |`.  :  :  .  .__________               XXXX
       XXXXX   /    ~   ~ ||.` `  : ||  \         /               XXXX
       XXXXX /        ~   ||  . .'.    /          /               XXXX
       XXXXX/    ~   ~   ~||        ||/          /                XXXX
       XXXXX    ~   ~   ~ ||        ||          /                 XXXX
       XXXXX              ||        ||         /                  XXXX
       XXXXX \_________XXXXX________||      XgjpX                 XXXX
       XXXXX           XXXXX                XXXXX                 XXXX

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 45
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                              COMMON SENSE???
                         Submitted by Joyce Flory
           From: The Voice of Veterans, Incarcerated newsletter
                          Volume Three; May 1994
                       VETLink #13 - Las Cruces, NM
                              (505) 523-2811
                        The prison counselors says
                     We must accept the responsibility
                               For our crime
                So the courts put us in prison to pull time
                        They take away our liberty
                          And put us through h*ll
                        This is punishment they say
                        The courts grant the coward
                           Draft dodgers pardons
                         No prison will they see,
                       But 450,000 of us who fought
                    For America in that crazy Asian War
                          Rot behind prison walls
               No pardon for those of us that made mistakes
               I ask you where's the common sense in that??
          Those who started the war, sit some place sipping wine,
         Those who sprayed Agent Orange on us, live the good life
              Those in Washington got $$rich$$ off contracts
                Guns and Bullets while we fought and died,
                       We came home they spit on us
                   Where is the common sense in this????
               You pardon cowards and set free draft dodgers
                        And let the real criminals
                        Walk free, while the maimed
                           And wounded brave men
                        Who fought the war, now sit
                         Dying behind prison walls
                      What kind of justice is that???
                       So if you're a real American,
                 And feel you want to right a wrong today:
                         Then take up the cause of 
                         450,000 Vietnam Veterans
                       Rotting behind prison walls.
                          Write your Congressman,
                            And demand a pardon
                               For them all
                            Why, pardon cowards
                           And let brave men rot
                            Behind prison walls
                         Put some common sense in
                          This insane government
                          By Johnny "Angel" Huff

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 46
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                           INCARCERATED VETERANS
           From: National Vietnam Veterans Coalition newsletter 
                      Oct./Nov., 1994 issue, page 20. 
                         Submitted by Joyce Flory
                   Incarcerated Veterans Section Editor
                       VETLink #13 - Las Cruces, NM
                              (505) 523-2811
     Edward J. McKenna and Norman Ackerman,  incarcerated veterans in a 
     New  York penitentiary comment on a 1988-89 Report of the  Working 
     Group on Incarcerated Veterans,  in an August 8,  1994,  letter to 
     incarcerated veterans activist Michael O'Meara: 
     The Report concluded that:
             - service should be the same as for the outside community
             - DOCS   [Department  of  Corrections   Services]   should 
               systematically screen for inmate veteran status 
             - vets  mental  health  assessment must include  a  record 
               taker  who  has the ability to take a reliable  military 
             - there  must be trained clinicians to deliver therapeutic 
             - there  must be specialized PTSD units for vets who  need 
               more  than the vets in the general population and  there 
               must be access to 'rap' groups,  peer counseling and DVA 
             - a   program   is  needed  for  the  transition  of   the 
               incarcerated vets back to society. 
     The Working Group went on to say:
       "There are counselors from DOCS as well as psychologists, social 
     workers,  and  psychiatrists  providing services  under...  Mental 
     Health.    These   professionals  need  appropriate  training   to 
     understand  the impact of the Vietnam experience and the nature of 
     PTSD,  and  to adapt their existing clinical skills to address the 
     special needs of incarcerated Vietnam veterans." [emphasis ours] 
       Unfortunately,  this  recommendation  by the Working  Group  was 
     taken  by the DOCS then-Commissioner,  Thomas Coughlin III,  as  a 
     mandate  to propose that $87,000.00,  later finalized by  Governor 
     Mario   Cuomo   as   $100,000.00,   be  used  in  1992   for   the 
     'sensitization'  of  corrections  Guidance Counselors  to  PTSD...  
     None  of  the  money went directly to PTSD patient  assessment  or 
     treatment.   Was  this  the  type of  expenditure  the  Commission 
       There  are  three  vital  elements missing  from  the  Findings, 
     Conclusions and Recommendations in the Report, namely: 
             - confidentiality - of records
             - trust - in DOCS agency personnel
             - herbicide (Agent Orange) exposure evaluation
     There  is none.   All DOCS security and counselor  units,  OMH-PSU 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 47
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     (Office  of  Mental Health -  Psychiatric  Satellite  Units),  and 
     Probation  and  Parole  records are  open to each  other,  to  the 
     courts and to other 'interested' legal parties,  and this includes 
     the history, psychological testing, disability assessments and any 
     unguarded  statements made in individual or group 'rap'  sessions.  
     To get out of the isolation, alienation, depression and despair of 
     PTSD,  the vet,  thinking there is a kind of anonymity cover,  may 
     confess  some transgression of war or civil society,  his own or a 
     buddy's, and end up with some new criminal/administrative charges, 
     or be on a 'rat' list.   Would you want to encourage the vets with 
     a need to unburden from the guilt and rage to stick their necks in 
     a noose?   Of course not.   But you fellows on the 'outside'  must 
     learn,  learn,  learn  the  absolute  lack of  confidentiality  of 
     records in the work of the state agencies. 
     None,  ...!   Any vet with a half a brain has an absolute dyed-in-
     the-wool  distrust  of state agency personnel  and  professionals; 
     distrust  of their motives of their WORD,  and of their competence 
     in  dealing with problems of PTSD,  Agent Orange toxicity and  DVA 
     accreditation for the vets disability and upgrading claims. 
     This  is  totally  sloughed  off by DOCS.   Not only  is  the  vet 
     suffering  from  diagnosis  and treatment neglect,  but  the  next 
     generation  is  at risk from transmitted genetic defects  possible 
     with  the toxicity.  ['Trailer'  visits and conjugal reunions  are 
     permitted  now in DOCS maximum-security facilities,  and there are 
     furlough and work-release programs in the mediums and minimums.] 

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 48
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                Vietnam Veterans, Incarcerated Pen Pal List
                          Submitted by Joyce Flory
                    Incarcerated Veterans Section Editor
                        VETLink #13 - Las Cruces, NM
                               (505) 523-2811
     Due to the lack of contact with many of the veterans listed below, 
     some may no longer be at the prison listed.
     Johnny Chadwick 110520                  James Bishop     31347
     Holman Unit 5-U-5                       Brook De Nault   29594
     Holman 37                               John Doane       14686
     Atmore, AL 36503-0037                   Roy Fudge        29966
                                             Earl Grissom     27536
     Chaplain Dennis G. Pigman               Brain Hern       14535
     Jerry Barnett     083876                Ken Jezierski    30790
     Michael Bass      086961                Harry Lilly      29894
     Ronald Brackett   800013                James McGee      31489
     Richard Brasher   077897                George McIntyre  25124
     Darrell Brooks    081683                Eugene Perry     29647
     Henry Burris      081658                James Raines     31445
     John Campbell     078482                Dan Richmond     15601
     John Campbell     076674                Eddie Romero     22115
     Tommy Chappell    091711                Eddie Sanchez    26895
     Stuart Clements   082516                Claude Theriault 11872
     Hoyt Clines       000886                Robert Turner    30473
     Raymond Coble     088317                Harold Weaver    17624
     Jessie Cockrell   082169                Jeff Weil        28242
     Benny Cooper      089393                Cecil Williams   23818
     James Dansby      082797                Nevada State Prison
     Thomas Dinger     088756                PO Box 607
     Isiah Dumas       079752                Carson City, NV. 89702
     Donnie Dunivan    082890
     David Fain        083803                Sam Howard       18329
     Lewis Fields      083568                Pete Huertas     15239
     Dennis Glick      086895                Jake Reynolds    21763
     Michael Hanshew   086275                Paul Stadtlander 23389
     Johny Henderson   082960                Cam Tomarchio    15192
     Harold Hobbs      077219                Ely State Prison
     Herman Holland    084387                PO Box 1989-ESP
     Dewayne Hulsey    000865                Ely, NV. 89301
     Cecil Jeffers     073300
     Tim Keepes        085209                George "Doc" Wray  31324
     Larry King        095569                Michael W. Tubazio 22135
     Harold Krigbaum   087060                Humboldt Conservation Ctr.
     Eugene Lilly      091245                PO Box 1069
     Scott Macdonald   082181                Winnemucca, NV. 89446-1069
     James Madison     083401
     Timmothy Mcdaniel 078129                Richard Young
     Gary Mcdonald     082306                Lock Bag "R" - 67793
     James Metcalf     088642                Rahway, N.J. 07065
     George Moore      076781
     Charles Moorman   076535                Ervun L. Armlin
     Herbert Newman    093888                86-C-0782 D-6-6
     Michael O'Rourke  000903                Ron Chamberlain
     Michael Orndorff  000889                81-C-0459 C-17-41
     William Parker    000899                Ed Beaufort Cutner
     Eldon Patton      060104                89-C-1606 C-13-6
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 49
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     James Perdue      084302                Thomas Delmonte
     James Phelps      084005                86-C-1021 A-1-20
     Perry Powell      092346                Gary Emry
     James Renton      073560                89-C-1315 A-7-24
     Darryl Richley    000888                Giacomo A. Frascone
     Willard Robbins   080976                89-A-3512 A-6-22
     Larry Robertson   089180                Elwood H. Fields
     Craig Ryan        093104                88-A-4043 D-8-13
     Raymond Sanders   000918                William L. Hargrove
     Larry Sawdon      080276                83-A-4292 D-8-18
     William Smallwood 090456                Donald W. Knapp
     Michael Smith     087109                88-C-0072 A-3-8
     Reginald Smith    085042                Michael Mantice
     Jimmy Staton      089671                90-A-7640 B-7-18
     Charles Stoner    084433                Thomas H. Marlowe
     William Sykes     084447                83-C-0834 E-9-16
     Danny Taylor      083979                Ferdinand Quiles
     Robert Upton      066236                83-A-5609 A-4-38
     Arthur Walls      079942                Robert T. Smith
     James Walters     087938                81-A-2188 A-5-10
     Bruce Ward        000915                Andrews S. Tenny
     Derek Webster     091356                81-B-2137 E-10-19
     Johnny Williams   079023                PO Box 618-135
     Alfred Wilson     062356                135 State St.
     Johnny Witham     065978                Auburn, N.Y. 13024-9000
     Billy Woodard     089235
     Gregory Woods     077991                Greg McCarthy
     Arkansas Dept. of Corr.                 257 Hallman Ave.
     Maximum Security Unit                   Oceanside, N.Y. 11572
     Star Route, Box 22-B
     Tucker, AK. 72168-8713                  Alexander Michael Marathon
                                             79D0127 D-1-26
     James L. Sparks                         Pouch 1
     A1-125-L                                Woodbourne, N.Y. 12788
     PO Box 7500
     Crescent City, CA. 95531-7500           Rob Brady      237-196
                                             Daniel Siders  234-394
     Manuel Babbitt                          Orient Corr. Inst.
     PO Box C50400 NSS 24                    PO Box 511
     Tamal, CA. 94974-0001                   Columbus, OH 43216
     Dennis E.Prentis 43497                  James Eades  Unit 4
     Chris S.Crespin  45523                  Stanton Easley
     Jerry Baack      57098                  86354  Unit 2
     PO Box 2017                             William Harris
     Buena Vista, CO. 81211                  77891  Unit 8
                                             Grant Henderson  Unit 4
     Whitmarsh Bailey 56715                  Myer Pettyjohn
     15,000 Golden Rd. CCC                   90722  Unit 9
     Golden, CO. 80401                       Johnny Ottinger  Unit 14
                                             John Slate  Unit 8
     A. David Baez 57020                     Charles Sprinkle
     PO Box 100                              109200  Unit 4
     Sommers, CT 06071                       Bobby Tate
                                             123531  Unit 5
     White Alvin                             Kenneth Teague
     EC-167140 KC-202                        112717  Unit 4
     Donald H. Crider                        PO Box 2000
     EF-241524 KA-111                        Wartburg, TN. 37887
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 50
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     Joe Crutchfield
     EF-182342 FC-210                        Van Burton
     Garey Davis                             108483 (A-120)
     EF-185119 KA-119                        M Davenport
     Albert Fetter                           155165 (N-321)
     EF-257479                               M Donati
     Howard David Kress                      150219 (D-71)
     EF-245285 GA-109                        Joe Grace
     Gerald LaPalme                          136189 (B-108)
     EF-152010 JA-119                        M Glennon
     Michael L. Morgan                       140901 (O-101)
     D-11340 H B-Range                       J Heidinger
     Raymond W. Myrick Jr.                   102513 (O-421)
     EF-199153 H B-Range                     Charles Ladison
     Clarence T. Plott                       138228 (O-330)
     EF-271182 FD-229                        G Magno
     Michael J. Previch                      112810 (N-418)
     EF-278117 JC-211                        William Merriman
     David E. Shepherd                       131789 (A-66)
     EF-158022 H B-Range                     L Rainsford
     James Talley                            126380 (B-108)
     EF-159938 HD-229                        Abdul Shah
     Metro Corr. Inst.                       101250 (O-417)
     1301 Constitution Rd. SE                Gerald Stovall Jr.
     Atlanta, GA. 30316-4698                 98899 (O-328)
                                             R Sutton
     Dwight L. Lyons                         141041 (O-317)
     Donald E. Head                          PO Box 488
     David M. McCook                         Burkeville, VA. 23922
       (DA-118) EF 18354
     Jack T. Ruthledge C.I.                  John R. Huff 177597
     PO Box 8409                             GRCC
     Columbus, GA. 31907-8409                B-3 #134
                                             901 Corrections Way
     Francis Smith                           Jarratt, VA. 23870
     PO Box 4002                             David Bailey
     Danville, IL. 61834-4002                153526 D-2
                                             Roger Baxter
     James L. Davis                          157594 D-2
     892971 E Dorm W-5                       Luther C. Beasley
     Joe DeRado                              110375 D-2
     902975 E Dorm E-42                      Gordon Cawthron
     J. Michael Ensley                       135734 D-6
     28828 F Dorm W-84                       Robert Hall
     Scotty Hammack                          148001 HA
     10422 ACH-148                           John Harris
     Danny W. Hamby                          133342 HA
     892631 E Dorm W-93                      Thomas Hawley
     Lowell K. Idle                          139294 D-1
     893265 DCH-424                          Carlton Heflin
     Richard Kirby                           170297 D-5
     31358 DCH-262                           Joseph Huggins
     Larry Lisenby                           99433 D-6
     853325 CCH-149                          Michael Kay
     Richard Martin                          136567 D-5
     9634 CCH-164                            Le'roi Mason
     William R. McCall                       104969 D-5
     8031 F-Dorm W-75                        Oliver Mayfield
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 51
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     Pat McGuire                             106330 HA-2
     892476 DCH-153                          James Moody
     Dinzel Miller                           160399 D-4
     23977 CCH-370                           William Moran
     Karl N. Robinson                        131271 D-2
     852525 CCH-343                          Preston Parker
     PO Box 41                               118311 D-5
     Indiana State Prison                    Jamal R Rashid
     Michigan City, IN. 46360                110781 D-2
                                             Matthew Sanders
     Cory Naples 901359                      166545 D-4
     Westville Corr. Ctr.                    Charlie Sherman
     PO Box 473                              128403 D-6
     Westville, IN 46391-0473                William Simmons
                                             106399 D-4
     Cecil Emerson 35427                     David Swink
     HFC D1-118                              157682 D-6
     PO Box 1568                             Curtis Wright
     Hutchinson, KS 67504-1558               125330 HA
                                             James River Corr. Ctr.
     William Caldwell 32280-138              State Farm, VA. 23160
     PO Box 1000
     Leavenworth, KS 66048-1000              Lee Bruer         960286
                                             Rudolph Cleveland 939491
     Leslie Gomes                            Larry DuBois      940561
     PO Box 565                              Edward Froats     287159
     Billeria, MA. 01821                     Jim Herrick       273217
                                             Walt Lamphere     936322
     Arthur Coy                              Bernard Olson     900437
     Frank Komnenus                          Jerry Phelps      262365
     Kevin M Pennell                         Pat Radford       280360
     Richard Ortiz                           George Tate       621964
     Tyrone Smith                            George Wilson     263328
     Robert Thompson                         PO Box 1000
     PO Box 466                              Steilacoom, WA. 98388-1000
     Gardner, MA. 01440
                                             Thomas Baja
     Richard Cogan                           951519 1-C-13 N.
     Essex County Corr. Facility             Jack Barnes
     Middleton, MA. 01949                    938196 6-D-12
                                             Chris Blystone
     Lance Koren                             939464 8 Wing
     P.O. Box 43                             Russell Coquillette
     Norfolk, MA. 02056                      277994 6-A-17
                                             Patterson Durryne
     George Lopriore                         279920 6-C-1
     PO Box 1218                             Donald C. Galbert
     Harvard Rd.                             901522 6-E-2
     Shirley, MA. 01464                      Frank R. Garcia
                                             627398 8-E-3
     John Worsham        129550              Brent Gidney
     RCI 1-A-18-B                            962194 6-F-7
     18701 Roxbury Rd.                       Billy Jensen
     Hogerstown, MD. 21746                   927130 6 W
                                             Louis Maryland
     James A. Anderson   167226              905616 1-D-18 N.
     Clement L. Butler   207027              Kermit Redeagle-Belgarde
     Isaac N. Davis, Jr. 139055              905798 1-A-4 N.
     Jimmy Foster        222309              Patrick Rice
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 52
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     Edward Walters      128636              916917 8 Wing
     30420 Revells Neck Rd.                  Darrell D. Richardson
     Westover, MD. 21871-3368                914388 8-D-13
                                             M.D. Sam Rosalez
     Alex Beaudine 145559                    627310 8-F-17
     Bill Hammes   204434                    Bill Sturph
     Terry Snyder  193889                    957368 8-E-1
     PO Box 1900                             Joe Tigano
     Adrian, MI. 49221                       952405 6-E-14
                                             PO Box 520
     Michael Perry      156982               Wash. State Penitentiary
     Thomas Remington   176402 OTF           Walla Walla, WA 99362
     David L. Stozicki  210271 G-30        
     Randolph J. Warner 208592               Danny R. Heller
     PO Box 5000                             PO Box 900-I
     Carson City, MI. 48811-5000             Sturtevant, WI 53177
     Mr. Conklin        159051               Calvin Allen       203359
     Michael Deen       201339               John Banaszak      188690
     Robert Dennstaedt  147258               Edward Belamares   128592
     Ron Duvall         119293               Merrit Burright    5593
     Mr. Peterson       167626               Anthony Cartwright 2210911
     Thomas Van Antwerp 184766               Eric Collins       201910
     Mr. Vaughan        145696               Charles Coogan     40001
     G. Robert Cotton Fac.                   Irvin Doxtator     16876
     PO Box 3003                             John S. Deuchars   42641
     Jackson, MI 49204                       John Erdman        133557
                                             Keith Fenderson    210194
     Boyd Blair          156418              Kevin Glover       167916
     Herschel Davis      163765              Robert L. Guck     72598
     Willi Henderson-Bey 128457              Roosevelt Hall     180767
     Ronald Kramer       181007              Jerry Hammill      66235
     William Letzgus     187075              Dane Hedstrom      125111
     David Martin        180065            
     Teddy McCray        200255              Mark Hinton        108536
     Danny McKay         147064              Colin Hutchinson   182042
     Wendell Neview      196387              Dale Hylok         110660
     David Oates         190210              Issac Jackson      186188
     Leonard Pikaart     179858              John Jaenke        89343
     David Prieto        193367              Tommy Johnson      138644
     Tim Shagen          203886              Myung Jun          201398
     Richard Sheff       180946              Dereck Kelly       209110
     Thomas Siemoneit    179536              Herman Krause      39312
     Tony Slusarski      131661              James Lelivelt     26992
     Ronald Triplett     132615              Richard Lewan      169630
     James Wilson        180186              William Lewis      44501
     Edwin Zimmerman     184779              James Lowery       166070
     2400 South Sheridan Rd.                 Charles L. Marstan 210697
     Muskegon, MI. 49442-6240                Robert McQueen     5705
                                             Ken Myers Jr.      173568
     Teddy Stephens  182636                  Aaron Overberg     142578
     MCF PO Box 480999                       Joe Perkins        50736
     New Haven, MI. 48048                    Robert Warren      104480
                                             Jose Rodriguez     193528
     Andy Cascarelli 201886                  Philip Roth        16844
     David Fox       200406                  Thomas Rush        177468
     Tim Grassmyer   206270                  Ruven Siebert      31311
     Rick Isbell     207512                  William Selmon     0259321
     Earl Lord       196758                  Robert Schmidt     187661
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 53
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     Antonio Lyte    165094                  Wayne Schwamb      178746
     Charles Ray     205764                  John Stallins      125612
     Eddie Stenton   198136                  Charles Stephenson 179459
     Robert White    182002                  Merlin Sternitzky  155685
     8201 N. Crosswell Rd.                   Gary L. Stibb      202596
     St. Louis, MO. 48880                    Kenneth Spears     88927
                                             Gary Sutton        196088
     Gary Letchworth  32588                  Ron Swartout       84812
     VVA/NIVA/NW/DSCH                        Thaddeus Sieger    215663
     Nevada Corr. Center                     Louis Tarentino    184595
     PO Box 7000                             Ronald Taylor      181190
     Carson City, NV. 89702                  Eric Vogliotti     186603
                                             Hoyt E. Vrooman    210573
     Don Miller                              Bernard Watts      177701
     Health and Safety                       Richard Webb       103925
     PO Box 7011                             Milton Wendler     135295
     Carson City, NV. 89702                  Randolph Whiting   158604
                                             PO Box #351
                                             Waupun, WI. 53963-0351

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 54
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                             Don't eat or drink!

                        Veterans and Agent Orange:
               Health effects of Herbicides used in Vietnam
                                 Report by
           Professor Robert MacLennan and Professor Peter Smith
                        Submitted by Neville Madden
                P O Box 112 Crows Nest  QLD 4355  Australia
          1.  Epidemiology Unit.  Queensland Institute of Medical
              Research.  300 Herston Rd. Brisbane, QLD  4029
          2.  Department of Haematology-Oncology,
              Royal Children's Hospital, Flemington Road,
              Parkville, V1C  3052
                            TERMS OF REFERENCE
     We  were asked to comment on the report of the Committee to Review 
     the  Health Effects on Vietnam Veterans of Exposure to Herbicides, 
     hereafter  referred  to  as the NAS Report.    The  Committee  was 
     appointed   by  the  Division  of  Health  Promotion  and  Disease 
     Prevention,   Institute  of  Medicine,   National  Academy  Press, 
     Washington, in 1993.  Our terms of reference were to:
          * Examine the Report of the National Academy of Sciences and 
            comment on the scientific merit of the Report;
          * Comment on the applicability of the findings of the Report
            to Australian servicemen and servicewomen, and in
            particular the diseases listed as "limited/suggestive" of
            an association, and if needed, assist in preparation of
            Statements of Principle that address these diseases;
          * Comment on the relevance of the Recommendations of the
            Report to Australian veterans.
     In  commenting  on  the  scientific merit of  the  NAS  Report  we 
     considered the following:
     1.  The members of the Committee are regarded highly by academic
         and  scientific  colleagues,  nationally and  internationally.  
         They have an appropriately wide range of expertise.
     2.  The Committee's specific mandate was to determine, if
         a.  "whether  there  is a statistical association between  the 
             suspect  diseases and herbicide use,  taking into  account 
             the   strength   of  the  scientific  evidence   and   the 
             appropriateness   of   the  method  used  to  detect   the 
         b.  "the increased risk of disease among individuals exposed
             to herbicides during service in Vietnam; and
         c.  "whether there is a plausible biologic mechanism or other
             evidence of a causal relationship between herbicide
             exposure and a disease".
     The  Committee's first task was to assess statistical association, 
     and  in  doing  so,  they took into account the  strength  of  the 
     evidence and the appropriateness of the methods used to detect the 
     association.   They also considered the consistence of association 
     among studies.  Their conclusions are given in the body of the NAS 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 55
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     The  Committee's findings regarding associations between  exposure 
     to herbicides and specific health outcomes are summarized in table 
     1-1  of  the  executive summary (pages 1-5 and  1-6)  of  the  NAS 
     Report.   The  findings are grouped under four  categories.   This 
     table has had considerable impact in the United States of America, 
     but  it should be noted that the table refers only to 2 (a)  above 
     and  not  to  2  (b)  or (c).   Diseases were  classified  by  the 
     Committee in four categories as follows:
          1.  sufficient evidence of an association;
          2.  limited/suggestive evidence of an association;
          3.  inadequate/insufficient evidence to determine whether an
              association exists;
          4.  limited/suggestive evidence of no association.
     These  categories are very similar to those used in  International 
     Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC)  monographs on the evaluation 
     of  carcinogenic  risk  to humans where the evidence  relevant  to 
     carcinogenicity  from studies in humans is classified into one  of 
     the following categories:
          1.  sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity
          2.  limited evidence of carcinogenicity
          3.  inadequate evidence of carcinogenicity
          4.  evidence suggesting lack of carcinogenicity.
     The  two classifications are thus structurally identical,  but are 
     essentially  different in what they refer to.   The categories  of 
     the  IARC classification refer to what are considered to be CAUSAL 
     RELATIONSHIPS whereas in contrast,  the categories in table 1-1 of 
     the  NAS report refer to POSITIVE STATISTICAL  ASSOCIATIONS.   The 
     NAS  Report  states  (page 1-5)  that  "the  distinctions  between 
     categories   are  based  on  'statistical  association',   not  on 
     causality,  as  is common in scientific reviews".   The NAS Report 
     does  however address whether or not there are plausible  biologic 
     mechanisms  between herbicide exposures and diseases,  as required 
     by  2(c)  above,  but quite correctly this consideration does  not 
     appear   to  have  influenced  their  assessment  of   statistical 
     association.   Other criteria of causality commonly used to assess 
     the  causality of associations were considered in the NAS  Report, 
     and the Committee were thus conservative in assessing the evidence 
     and  in allocating associations into their first three  categories 
     of  association  above.   This  is discussed further in  the  next 
     section of our report.
     The NAS Report is a high quality review by competent and respected 
     scientists of the scientific literature relating to health effects 
     of  the herbicides used in Vietnam.   The NAS Report reports on an 
     evaluation of statistical associations, and although the Committee 
     did  not formally evaluate the causality of those associations for 
     which there is considered to be "sufficient evidence",  several of 
     the  criteria  normally  used  to assess causality  were  used  in 
     determining  the  presence  of  "statistical  association".    The 
     Committee was thus conservative in its evaluation of the evidence.
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 56
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

       In  the  general  absence of an index of  personal  exposure  to 
     herbicides,  two  approaches  have  been used to  assess  possible 
     adverse health effects of service in Vietnam.   The first approach 
     assumes  that  exposure  to herbicides occurred but  is  generally 
     impossible  to study directly,  and hence the effects of herbicide 
     exposure  in  other  situations  are used as  surrogates  for  the 
     effects of service in Vietnam.   This approach is the basis of the 
     NAS  Report,  and  classifies diseases according to the  level  of 
     association  with herbicide exposure in non-Vietnam  studies.   No 
     attempt is made to take account of the high probability that apart 
     from  personnel  directly  involved in  spraying  herbicides,  the 
     exposure  to herbicides of veterans in Vietnam was very much  less 
     than  in studies of persons exposed in manufacturing herbicides or 
     in applying them.
     The  second approach pragmatically seeks to determine what adverse 
     health effects are associated with Vietnam service.   The issue as 
     to  whether  or  not there was herbicide exposure  and  consequent 
     health  effects  is  regarded as an insoluble problem  beyond  the 
     scope of scientific investigation, and thus of little relevance to 
     decision  making.   In  preparatory  work for  an  epidemiological 
     investigation   by  the  Commonwealth  Institute  of  Health   and 
     commissioned   by  the  Australian  Government,   the  problem  of 
     development  of an adequate index of exposure was considered to be 
     insurmountable,  and  as a consequence it would not be possible to 
     demonstrate direct associations between exposure to herbicides and 
     diseases  in  veterans.    One  of  the  authors  of  this  report 
     (MacLennan) was the principal investigator during the planning and 
     initiation  of Australian studies in 1981,  and the approach taken 
     in relation to studies of Australian veterans was to attribute any 
     differences in disease outcomes between veteran and control groups 
     to  service in Vietnam rather than to herbicide exposure,  per se.  
     An  example is the study of birth defects in children fathered  by 
     Australian veterans (Donovan et al 1984).
     Because  the  health effects observed in non-veteran  studies  are 
     often   done  in  highly  exposed  groups  of  people,   eq   from 
     occupational  exposures,  or as a result of an accidental exposure 
     as  in  the  population  of  Seveso,  Italy,  application  of  the 
     conclusions  of  the  NAS  Report  to  veterans  who,  except  for 
     personnel  occupationally  exposed,   had  much  lower  levels  of 
     exposure, is giving veterans the benefit of any doubt.
       The  process  of  extrapolation from studies of  highly  exposed 
     persons to veterans with generally unknown exposures appears to be 
     a response to the concerns of veterans.   It is stated on page 1-4 
     of  the  NAS  Report  that "the Committee  felt  that  considering 
     studies  of  other groups could help address the issue of  whether 
     these   compounds  might  be  associated  with  particular  health 
     outcomes,  even  though these results would have only an  indirect 
     bearing  on the increased risk of disease in veterans  themselves.  
     Some  of  these studies,  especially those of workers in  chemical 
     production plants,  provide stronger evidence about health effects 
     than  studies  of  veterans because exposure  was  generally  more 
     easily quantified and measured."
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 57
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     The  Committed  state on page 1-13 that "although there have  been 
     numerous  health  studies  of Vietnam  veterans,  most  have  been 
     hampered  by relatively poor measures of exposure to herbicides or 
     TCDD, in addition to other methodological problems". On page 1-13, 
     the  concluded that "it is not possible to quantify the degree  of 
     risk  likely  to  be  experienced by  veterans  because  of  their 
     exposure to herbicides in Vietnam."
       In  considering to what extent the findings of the Committee are 
     applicable to Australian veterans,  it is noted that the Committee 
     was   very   conservative  in  their  assessment  of   statistical 
     associations.   They  used more stringent criteria than appear  to 
     have been required by their terms of reference.  On page 8-3,  the 
     Committee  state  that  "one must beware of over  interpreting  an 
     isolated  finding of excess risk for a given tumour type within  a 
     single study.   Consistency across studies,  with consideration of 
     dose-response  relationships and use of other statistical  methods 
     that evaluate plausibility, should be assessed before reaching any 
     conclusions  regarding associations between exposures and  cancer.  
     Additionally,  the  confidence  intervals around the  estimate  of 
     association  will  provide guidance as to the degree of  precision 
     and study size."  Dose-response and plausibility are criteria also 
     used  in making judgements about the causality of associations and 
     go beyond simple statistical associations.
     In our review, we have considered that the NAS Report's category 2 
     of   "limited/suggestive"    evidence   of   an   association   is 
     unsatisfactory  from the point of view of decision making.   Hence 
     we  have  deleted the  "limited/suggestive"  category.   Only  two 
     categories   -   "sufficient  evidence  of  an  association"   and 
     "inadequate/insufficient   evidence   to  determine   whether   an 
     association  exists"  are  used  by us in  our  report.   We  have 
     evaluated  the  evidence  of association for all diseases  in  the 
     "limited/suggestive"  category,  and  have assigned them to either 
     the  "sufficient evidence"  or "inadequate/insufficient  evidence" 
     categories.   In  addition,  we  have  reviewed  diseases  in  the 
     "inadequate/insufficient" category to assess whether any should be 
     classified in the "sufficient evidence" category.
       We  accept the NAS Report's inclusion of the following  diseases 
     in  this  category:   chloracne,  soft tissue  sarcoma,  porphyria 
     cutanea tarda, non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, Hodgkin's disease.  To this 
     we would add multiple myeloma,  leukaemia and respiratory cancers.  
     The reasons for doing so are given below.
     The  approach  taken by the Committee to categorizing evidence  of 
     statistical   associations   was   conservative,    and   included 
     consideration   of  criteria  used  to  judge  the  causality   of 
     associations.   Some of these criteria are measures,  in part,  of 
     the  internal validity of a study and are therefore  appropriately 
     considered in the context of assessing associations.
       Due  to the conservative approach taken by the Committee in  the 
     NAS Report,  we have compared the conclusions of the NAS Committee 
     and those of a US Department of Veterans Affairs (DVA)  Task Force 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 58
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     in  relation to three cancers (lung,  larynx,  trachea),  prostate 
     cancer, and multiple myeloma) included in the "limited/suggestive" 
     category of the NAS Report.
     The process by which determination are made regarding compensation 
     for  veterans for certain diseases related to service is  outlined 
     on page 2-28 of the NAS Report.  It is stated that
          "whenever  the  Secretary determines,  on the  basis  of 
          sound  medical and scientific evidence,  that a positive 
          association  exists between the exposure of humans to an 
          herbicide  agent,  and  the occurrence of a  disease  in 
          humans,  the  Secretary prescribes regulations providing 
          that  a  presumption of service connection is  warranted 
          for  that disease.   The current DVA compensation policy 
          provides  that in making determinations,  the  Secretary 
          shall  take  into  account  reports  from  the  National 
          Academy  of  Sciences  and all other sound  medical  and 
          scientific information and analysis.   In evaluating any 
          study for the purpose of making such determinations, the 
          Secretary  shall  take  into consideration  whether  the 
          results  are statistically significant,  are capable  of 
          replication, and withstand peer review.   An association 
          between  the  occurrence  of  a disease  in  humans  and 
          exposure  to  an  herbicide agent is  considered  to  be 
          positive if the credible evidence for the association is 
          equal  to or outweighs the credible evidence against the 
     The  DVA Task Force stated that "The NAS Report is both a valuable 
     contribution  to  the  medical  and scientific  literature  and  a 
     valuable resource to DVA in carrying out the Congressional mandate 
     to  prescribe regulations for a presumption of service-connection, 
     when DVA determines that the credible evidence for the association 
     (between herbicide use and a disease) is equal to or outweighs the 
     credible  evidence  against the association".   The NAS  Committee 
     "was  charged with reviewing the scientific evidence,  rather than 
     making recommendations regarding .. policy" (NAS Report Page 1-5). 
     Both  the  NAS  Committee and the DVA Task  Force  considered  the 
     evidence.  In doing so the DVA Task Force used the NAS Report as a 
     resource,   and   had  access  to  the  same  body  of  scientific 
     We  have reviewed the evidence,  taking into account both the  NAS 
     Report and the DVA Task Force recommendations.
       Multiple  myeloma  is  a  malignant  disease  resulting  from  a 
     monoclonal proliferation of plasma cells which are the most mature 
     cells  of  the  B  lymphocyte lineage.   It  is  a  very  uncommon 
     malignancy   representing  approximately  1%   of   haematological 
     malignancies  and  thus  a  very small  percentage  of  malignancy 
     overall.   Its  incidence  is  age dependant being  very  uncommon 
     before middle age and with incidence rising to advancing age.   It 
     is  interesting  to  note that it is approximately 14  times  more 
     common  in  Afro  Americans than in white Americans.   Thus  in  a 
     racially  representative  sample  of the US population  one  would 
     expect  to find approximately twice the cases that one would  find 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 59
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     in a similarly representative sample of the Australian population.
     EPIDEMIOLOGIC STUDIES.   Epidemiologic studies of multiple myeloma 
     in   populations  exposed  or  likely  to  have  been  exposed  to 
     herbicides are summarised in table 8-32 of the NAS Report.  As the 
     DVA  Task  Force  has  commented,  these  data  are  at  least  as 
     compelling  in  establishing  an association as are the  data  for 
     Hodgkin's disease.
     Epidemiological  studies  of multiple myeloma in Vietnam  veterans 
     however  have not established a clear association.   These studies 
     are  difficult  to  accept as definitive however  because  of  the 
     rarity of the disease under study and the fact that the median age 
     of  the  population under study is still too low to pick  up  many 
     cases.   If  the effect simply causes an increase in age  specific 
     incidence  this hypothesized effect may not be seen for many  more 
     BIOLOGICAL  CONSIDERATIONS.   As  pointed out in the  introduction 
     multiple  myeloma  is  a  malignancy  of mature  cells  of  the  B 
     lymphocyte  lineage.   The  data strongly support  an  association 
     between  non  Hodgkin's lymphoma and both herbicide  exposure  and 
     Vietnam  service.   Non  Hodgkin's lymphoma in this age  group  is 
     usually  a  malignant  proliferation of less mature cells  of  the 
     lymphocyte  lineage.   While  this cell lineage does not prove  an 
     association  it does provide plausible support for the  hypothesis 
     of association.
     CONCLUSION:  We would agree with the DVA Task Force reviewers that 
     the  data  provide sufficient evidence of an  association  between 
     multiple myeloma and exposure to herbicides.
       Leukaemia  results from an abnormal monoclonal proliferation  of 
     haemopoietic stem or precursor cells of either myeloid or lymphoid 
     lineage  resulting  in the recognised forms of  this  disease,  ie 
     acute  myeloid  leukaemia  (AML),  acute  lymphoblastic  leukaemia 
     (ALL),  chronic  myeloid leukaemia (CML),  and chronic lymphocytic 
     leukaemia (CLL).   Leukaemia in humans is associated with exposure 
     to ionizing radiation and in some cases, a genetic predisposition.
     EPIDEMIOLOGICAL  STUDIES:   Results of epidemiological studies  of 
     leukaemia in populations exposed or likely to have been exposed to 
     herbicides  are given in the NAS Report in table 8-33  (production 
     workers),  table  8-34  (agricultural workers)  and on page  8-137 
     (Vietnam  veterans).   These studies are complicated by (i)  small 
     numbers  as this is an uncommon disorder especially in younger  to 
     middle  aged persons and (ii)  possibly long latency.   A positive 
     association  was found in studies of Seveso survivors where  there 
     was  a relative risk of 1.98 (1.25-3.13)  for leukaemia (Bertazzi, 
     1989).   There has been an extensive literature over many years of 
     the  association  between  leukaemia and  farming,  summarized  by 
     Burmeister  (1982).   Studies  reported by Alavanja  (1988)  among 
     agricultural   extension  workers  found  an  increased  risk   of 
     leukaemia  of  1.92 (1.04-3.54),  with significant  dose  response 
     related  to  number  of years  worked.   However,  the  amount  of 
     exposure  of  farmers  and agricultural workers to  herbicides  is 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 60
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     SMOKING:   Inclusion of leukaemia as a war service related disease 
     is  supported  by  a  recent  meta-analysis  supporting  a  causal 
     relationship  between cigarette smoking and certain forms of adult 
     leukaemia  (Brownson  et all 1993).   The summary smoking  related 
     risk derived from prospective studies was 1.3 (1.3-1.4), and there 
     was evidence of dose-response.   In an evaluation of epidemiologic 
     studies  and  applying the criteria for causal  inference,  Siegel 
     (1993) concluded that smoking causes myeloid leukaemia.
     BIOLOGICAL  CONSIDERATIONS:   Leukaemia is a disorder affecting  a 
     haemopoietic stem or precursor cell.  There is evidence of a clear 
     association  between herbicide exposure and disorders of cells  of 
     haemopoietic lineage (NHL and HD) and a situation where we believe 
     the  evidence  for  such  an association  outweighs  the  evidence 
     against the association (multiple myeloma).  Thus, it is plausible 
     to  argue that an insult suffered by cells of a particular lineage 
     resulting  in  malignant  proliferation of more  mature  precursor 
     cells  might,  after  an appropriate latency,  produce  a  similar 
     effect  on  less mature precursors of the same  lineage.   Indeed, 
     there  is a clear association between occurrence of NHL or HD  and 
     acute  leukaemia,  in that patients who have had HD or NHL are  at 
     much higher risk than the general population to develop leukaemia.  
     We  believe  that  these biological  arguments  provide  plausible 
     support for the argument of an association.
     CONCLUSIONS:   In  contrast  to the NAS Report and DVA Task  Force 
     findings,  we believe that the evidence for an association between 
     herbicide  exposure  and leukaemia at least balances the  evidence 
     against such an association.  Such an argument is partly supported 
     by biological considerations.   If the association between smoking 
     and  leukaemia  is accepted,  the number of cases of leukaemia  in 
     non-smoking veterans would be small, and these should be given the 
     benefit of the doubt.
       Tobacco  smoking  causes a very high proportion  of  respiratory 
     cancer   (of  the  larynx,   trachea  and  bronchus)   in  Western 
     populations.   Smoking  varies  by occupation,  the proportion  of 
     smokers  generally  being  higher  in  "blue-collar"  workers  who 
     because  of  their occupation may also be exposed to a  number  of 
     chemicals.   Smoking  may thus be associated with both respiratory 
     cancer   and  occupational  chemical  exposure.    Hence,   in  an 
     epidemiological  study,  a suspected occupational exposure may  be 
     found  to  be associated with lung cancer because the exposure  is 
     associated  with  smoking  which in turn is associated  with  lung 
     cancer.  This type of association is termed secondary association, 
     and  the  relationship between exposure and disease is said to  be 
     confounded.   The  effects  of  confounding can be  controlled  in 
     analysis,  but  only  if smoking information is available for  the 
     individuals   whose  chemical  exposure  and  disease  have   been 
     documented.   It  appears  likely that the assignment in  the  NAS 
     Report  of respiratory cancers to the "limited/suggestive evidence 
     of  association"  category  was  based mainly  on  the  inadequate 
     control of potential confounding by smoking in the analysis of the 
     studies reviewed.
     In addition to the overall summary in chapter 1 of the NAS Report, 
     we  have review four studies of particular relevance to the  issue 
     of association of herbicide exposure and respiratory cancers.
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 61
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     Lynge (1985) included a high proportion of all persons employed in 
     the manufacture of phyenoxy herbicides in Denmark before 1982 when 
     the predominant product was MCPA and only a very limited amount of 
     2,3,5-T  was processed in one of the two factories included in the 
     study.   Cancer  cases  were identified by linkage to  the  Danish 
     National  Cancer  Registry.   Eleven  cases of  lung  cancer  were 
     observed  in men compared with 5.33 expected,  a relative risk  of 
     2.06 (95 percent confidence interval 1.03-3.69).  Lynge considered 
     this  nevertheless to be due to chance because of the large number 
     of  diagnostic  groups  tested.   The  plants  were  located  near 
     provincial  towns  and workers were previously recruited from  the 
     countryside  where  tobacco consumption was relatively low in  the 
     1950s.   Lynge concluded that "based on the data presented here it 
     is  not  possible to draw a conclusion concerning the lung  cancer 
     risk following exposure to phyenoxy herbicides".
     In  their study of 5,172 workers exposed to TCDD when working  for 
     12 companies in the US, Fingerhut et al (1991),  from the National 
     Institute  for Occupational Safety and Health,  found that "excess 
     mortality  from all cancers combined,  cancers of the  respiratory 
     tract,  and soft tissue sarcoma may result from exposure to TCDD", 
     although  they  could  not "exclude the possible  contribution  of 
     factors  such  as  smoking  and  occupational  exposure  to  other 
     chemicals".  The  total  cohort of workers "had a  non-significant 
     increase  in mortality from cancers of the trachea,  bronchus  and 
     lung  (ICD code 162).   Mortality from cancers of the  respiratory 
     system  (ICD  codes 160 to 165)  was significantly higher  in  the 
     high-exposure  subcohort (SMR 142;  95 percent confidence interval 
     To  estimate the effect of smoking on the increase in lung cancer, 
     the  expected number of lung cancers was adjusted according to the 
     smoking prevalence found in lifetime histories obtained in 1987 by 
     interviewing 223 workers in two plants.  This adjustment increased 
     the  expected  number of lung cancers in the overall cohort  by  5 
     percent  and  in  the high exposure subcohort by  1  percent,  and 
     reduced  the SMR in the full cohort to 105 (95 percent  confidence 
     interval  85-130)  and  in the high exposure subcohort to 137  (95 
     percent  confidence  interval 98-187).   There was no  significant 
     linear  trend  in  mortality  from  lung  cancer  with  increasing 
     duration of exposure to products contaminated with TCDD.  In their 
     discussion the authors stated that
        "the  increased number of lung cancers in the  high-exposure 
        subcohort was probably not due to confounding by smoking for 
        several reasons.
        First,  other  diseases  related  to smoking were  not  more 
        common than expected in this subcohort . . .
        Second,  in the exposed population with 20 years of latency, 
        whose members presumably shared similar smoking habits,  the 
        increase was confined to the high exposure subcohort.
        Third,  on  the  basis  of  empirical  evidence  from  other 
        studies,  Siemiatycki  et al have shown that between a blue-
        collar population and the general US population, confounding 
        by  smoking is unlikely to account to an excess risk of more 
        than 10 to 20 percent.
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 62
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

        Finally,  a  limited  adjustment in the risk of lung  cancer 
        based on the smoking prevalence of surviving workers at only 
        two plants, did not substantially change our results."
     However,  they  stated that "it remains possible that the increase 
     was  due to confounding by occupational exposure other than  TCDD.  
     For example,  asbestos may have contributed to mortality from lung 
     cancer in the cohort, since two deaths were due to mesotheliomas". 
     The  small but significant increase from all cancers combined  was 
     considered to be "consistent with a carcinogenic effect of TCDD".
     After  excluding  lung  cancers,  Fingerhut  et  al  (1991)  found 
     increased  cancer mortality with an overall SMR of 117 (95 percent 
     confidence  interval 100-136);  the high-exposure subcohort had an 
     SMR  of  150 (95 percent confidence interval 118-189).   Thus  the 
     increased  mortality  could not be explained by smoking,  and  the 
     authors considered it biologically plausible that TCDD may produce 
     tumours in more than one organ in humans.   In an editorial in the 
     New  England  Journal of Medicine,  Bailar (1991)  commented  that 
     "there is some weakening of the position of those who believe that 
     low levels of exposure to TCDD are entirely safe for humans".   He 
     further  stated  "despite  the problems,  which  Fingerhut  et  al 
     carefully  note,  this work is a model of its kind.   Occupational 
     cohort studies are inherently difficult, and we are likely to wait 
     a long time for appreciably better evidence of the effects of TCDD 
     on human health".
     Manz  et al (1991)  reported a mortality followup of 1184 men  and 
     399  women employed in a Boehringer chemical plant in Germany that 
     produced  herbicides  including processes contaminated with  TCDD.  
     The  deaths from all cancers had an SMR of 124 when compared  with 
     national data, similar to the SMR of 115 in the NIOSH study.  They 
     concluded that their findings point to TCDD as a human carcinogen, 
     and  that  their  results  showed  that  the  increase  in  cancer 
     mortality  is  not  directed  at  special  sites.   However,  when 
     compared  with  a cohort of 3417 male workers at the  Hamburg  gas 
     company,  who  had  similar smoking histories,  the SMR  for  lung 
     cancer among the TCDD exposed workers in the Boehringer cohort was 
     167 (95 percent confidence interval 109-244).   This SMR was based 
     on  26n cases observed versus 15.6 expected.   They concluded that 
     "substantial confounding due to smoking seems unlikely".
     Saracci  et  al  (1991)  reported results  from  an  international 
     register  of  18,910  production  workers  or  sprayers  from  ten 
     countries.    Using   cause-specific   national  death  rates   as 
     reference,  no  excess mortality was observed for all causes,  for 
     all  neoplasms,  for  the most common epithelial cancers,  or  for 
     lymphomas.    Among   13,482   workers  regarded  as  exposed   to 
     chlorophenoxy herbicides,  the SMR for trachea,  bronchus and lung 
     cancers was 102 (95 percent confidence interval 87-118);  but in a 
     subcohort  of  416  workers regarded as probably exposed  (no  job 
     titles  were  available but it was judged that most workers  would 
     have been exposed) the SMR was 221 (95 percent confidence interval 
     110-395);  and  in  3951 non-exposed workers the SMR was  140  (95 
     percent    confidence   interval   100-190).     The   statistical 
     significance  of  these  increased SMRs must  be  considered  with 
     caution  due  to  the large number of sites  and  exposure  groups 
     assessed.   Furthermore,   it  was  not  possible  to  adjust  for 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 63
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     confounding  by  smoking due to the absence of  information.   The 
     authors  do not comment on lung cancer in the discussion of  their 
     Williams (1991)  stated in a letter to the Lancet (December 21/28, 
     1991,  page  1592)   that  "exposure  to  TCDD  has  been  clearly 
     associated  with depression of the immune system in  animals;  the 
     weaker   evidence  for  man  is  due  largely  to   methodological 
     shortcomings.  .  .   Secondly,   if  we  assume  that  TCDDs  are 
     carcinogenic promoters and that they have the ability to stimulate 
     initiated  cells  to produce a tumour,  it is plausible that  TCDD 
     could  promote  overt  cancer  in  many  different  types  and  at 
     different sites.  Biologically the precedence for this can be seen 
     in  organ  transplant surgery which has been causally linked  with 
     the development of several de novo cancers - for example, lymphoma 
     (notably reticulum cell sarcoma),  liver cancer,  and skin cancer.  
     This variety of de novo cancers is caused by the immunocompromised 
     state  of the individual,  rendering them more susceptible to  the 
     impact of carcinogenic stimulus".
     In its Report (page 8-2) the NAS Committee said that "based on its 
     effects  in animal studies,  TCDD is considered a tumour promoter, 
     not a tumour initiator".  Although it is biologically plausible to 
     have  cancers of more than one type following TCDD exposure,  lung 
     cancer  has  not been recognized to be increased  following  organ 
     transplantation and immunosuppression.
     CONCLUSIONS:   There  is evidence both for and against  herbicide-
     lung  cancer association,  with some studies providing evidence of 
     statistically  significant association (despite absence of  formal 
     control  of confounding)  and others being unable to replicate the 
     finding  of association.   In an Australian contest where  smoking 
     related  diseases  have  already  been determined  to  be  Service 
     related,  veterans  with  the  very few  respiratory  cancers  not 
     presumptively  related to exposure to tobacco should be given  the 
     benefit  of  any  doubt,  and it is recommended  that  respiratory 
     cancers should be included in the "Sufficient evidence" category.
       The only disease in the "Limited/suggestive" category not so far 
     discussed  is  prostate cancer.   Regarding the  applicability  to 
     Australian  veterans,  we  have considered the major  publications 
     reviewed by the NAS Committee.
     Alavanja et al 1988 studied mortality among agricultural extension 
     agents  employed by the US Department of Agriculture.   They  were 
     responsible  for  disseminating information from the  agricultural 
     research   community   to   individual   farmers.     Although   a 
     proportionate  mortality analysis showed an increase for  prostate 
     cancer  (PMR  of 1.5 with 95%  confidence interval  1.13-1.99),  a 
     case-control analysis of their mortality data found the odds ratio 
     for ever versus never having been an extension agent was 1.02 (95% 
     confidence interval 0.69-1.49).   Approximately one third of these 
     men  had  been  farmers  prior to their  employment  as  extension 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 64
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     Blair  et al 1985 reviewed the literature and found that despite a 
     generally  favourable  experience  overall,  farmers  were  at  an 
     increased  risk from several cancers including prostate,  although 
     in a previous study of licensed pesticide applicators, Blair et al 
     1983  had  2 observed cases of prostate cancer compared  with  3.8 
     expected; and in a geographical analysis of prostate cancer in the 
     United States,  Blair and Fraumeni (1978)  found the highest rates 
     for prostate cancer in the Midwest and north-central region of the 
     United States.
     Burmeister  (1981)  used  Iowa  death certificate  information  to 
     compare  the mortality rates of white male farmers and nonfarmers, 
     and found a higher proportional mortality rate for prostate cancer 
     among farmers (PMR = 1.10 p<0.01).  Age-adjusted death rates among 
     Iowa  farmers  from 1971 to 1978 were 206.48 per 100,000  compared 
     with  116.20  among non-farmers.   Burmeister et al  (1983)  in  a 
     subsequent  case-control  analysis of death certificates found  an 
     association between farming and prostate cancer (OR 1.19, p<0.05), 
     but no association with any agricultural practice was found.
     Morrison  et  al (1992)  in their review of herbicides and  cancer 
     summarised  epidemiologic  studies of herbicide exposure  and  the 
     relative  risk of prostate cancer.   They concluded that there was 
     limited  evidence that herbicide exposure may increase the risk of 
     prostate cancer.   The studies reviewed included a cohort study of 
     western  Canadian  farmers  (Morrison et al 1993)  which  found  a 
     significant  dose-response  relationship between risk of dying  of 
     prostate  cancer and the number of acres sprayed.   Morrison et al 
     (1992)  concluded  that  "9  out of 10 studies reviewed  noted  an 
     increased   risk  of  prostate  cancer  with  herbicide  exposure; 
     however,   only   the  Canadian  study  observed  a  statistically 
     significant trend in risk".
     In the NAS Report,  the Committee place considerable weight on the 
     1993  paper  of Morrison et al.   They note the increased risk  of 
     prostate  cancer  associated  with  herbicide  spraying,  and  the 
     increasing  risk  found with increasing number of  acres  sprayed.  
     "For the entire cohort,  the relative risk for prostate cancer and 
     spraying at least 250 acres was 1.2 (CI 1.0-1.5).;  Adjustment for 
     potential  confounders  in  the  analysis showed  no  evidence  of 
     confounding  for  the association."   Analysis was  restricted  to 
     groups of farmers most likely to be exposed to phenoxy herbicides, 
     and  the  Committee  reported that "for each of  these  restricted 
     comparisons,  a  statistical test for trend over increasing number 
     of acres sprayed was significant".
     In contrast to studies of farmers, Breslin et al (1988)  report on 
     patterns  of  mortality  among  24,235 US Army  and  Marine  Corps 
     Vietnam veterans compared with that of 26,685 non-Vietnam veterans 
     using standardized proportional mortality ratios.  They found that 
     when all the malignancies were grouped together,  Vietnam veterans 
     did  not  exhibit  an  excess of cancer  when  compared  to  their 
     counterparts   who   did  not  serve  in  Vietnam.    They   found 
     statistically  significant  increased risk among Marines for  lung 
     cancer (PMR 1.58, p<0.025),  and non-Hodgkin's lymphoma (PMR 2.10, 
     p<0.025).  The risk for soft tissue sarcoma was not elevated among 
     Vietnam  veterans as a whole or in any subgroup of these veterans.  
     There  were  30  deaths from prostate cancer  among  Army  Vietnam 
     veterans  (PMR  0.92,  95%  confidence interval 0.55-1.23)  and  5 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 65
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     deaths  among Marine Vietnam veterans (PMR  1.29,  95%  confidence 
     interval  0.16-10.3).   The  NAS Committee comment that  "prostate 
     cancer  is  generally a disease of older men,  and the risk  among 
     Vietnam  veterans  would  not yet be detectable  in  epidemiologic 
     CONCLUSIONS:   The  studies reviewed can be grouped into those  of 
     farmers  and  related  occupations where  some  chemical  exposure 
     (albeit poorly defined)  is assumed to have occurred,  and a study 
     of  mortality  in Vietnam veterans.   Neither the first  group  of 
     studies  provides sufficient evidence of statistical  association, 
     nor  does the study of veterans.   Hence prostate cancer should be 
     included   in  the  inadequate/insufficient  category.    Although 
     studies  of Vietnam veterans have not shown an increased risk  for 
     prostate  cancer,  veterans  have  not yet reached the  age  where 
     prostate cancer is common,  and this outcome should continue to be 
     monitored and kept under review.
     The  research recommendations in chapter 12 of the NAS Report  are 
     specifically  directed  to  the  USA.    The  recommendations  are 
     abbreviated  in numbers 1 to 67 below,  and comments are then made 
     as to their relevance to Australian veterans.
     Although small in numbers compared with the Ranch Hands, the Field 
     Hygiene   Corps  of  the  Australian  Army  used  herbicides   and 
     pesticides  and  potentially  had higher levels of  exposure  than 
     other  Service  personnel.    Members  of  this  corps  should  be 
     identified and offered periodic screening for cancer.
     As  a result of previous investigations,  a computerised  database 
     exists  in Australia of the 49,000 persons allotted to service  in 
     Vietnam.   To  these,  attempts should be made to identify and add 
     the  approximate 3,000 persons including members of the Australian 
     Services  and  civilian employees who were also sent  to  Vietnam, 
     albeit in many instances for brief periods.
     The  database of National Servicemen who were drafted but who were 
     not  subsequently  allocated to Vietnam service has been shown  in 
     previous  studies,  such as that of mortality,  to be a unique and 
     highly valuable research resource.
     Both  these databases should be maintained,  be held by more  than 
     one institution, and, with suitable safeguards,  be made available 
     for future research on the effects of Vietnam service.
     Developments elsewhere should be monitored, although this is a low 
     research priority within Australia.
     Developments  elsewhere should be monitored,  and if a valid model 
     were to be developed its use in future Australian studies would be 
     informative.    Previous   consideration  of  the  feasibility  of 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 66
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     developing  an  exposure model for Australian  veterans  concluded 
     that it would not be feasible to develop a valid model because the 
     only  objective  evidence would be to link information  on  aerial 
     spraying  (from  the so-called HERBS tapes)  with the location  of 
     troops  on the ground,  together with an estimate of exposure that 
     might result taking distance,  weather,  vegetation,  clothing etc 
     into  account.   A  major  factor against the  feasibility  of  an 
     exposure  index in Australian service personnel was that up to  30 
     percent  of  the  personnel  in  units  at  any  given  time  were 
     misclassified regarding their presence or absence.
     Developments  elsewhere  should be monitored,  but this is  a  low 
     research priority for Australia.
     This conditional recommendation is supported, although it is noted 
     that  because  it appears unlikely that a valid model of  exposure 
     will  be developed,  epidemiologic research on Australian veterans 
     should focus on Vietnam Service as the relevant exposure.
     It  is  recommended  that the occurrence of diseases  in  veterans 
     should  be  monitored  by  periodic linkage  of  the  computerised 
     indexes (recommendation 2 above)  of persons who served in Vietnam 
     and  of  National Service draftees who did not,  to  the  National 
     Cancer  Incidence Clearing House and to the National Death  Index.  
     Such  investigations could be assisted by the Australian Institute 
     of  Health and Welfare which maintains the National Clearing House 
     for Cancer and the National Death Index.
     Alavanja MCR, BL air A, Merkle S, Teske J, Eaton B.  
       Mortality among agricultural extension agents.  American Journal
       of Industrial Medicine 1988;14:167-176.
     Bailar JC.  How dangerous is dioxin?  
       New England Journal of Medicine 1991;324:260-262.
     Bertazzi PA, Zocchetti C, Pesatori AC, Guercilena S, Sanarico M &
       Radice L.  Ten year mortality study of the population involved
       in the Seveso Incident in 1976.  American Journal of
       Epidemiology 1989; 129:1187-1200.
     Bertazzi PA, Pesatori AC, Consonni D, Tironi A, Landi MT &
       Zocchetti C. Cancer incidence in a population accidentally
       exposed to 2,3,7,8-Tetrachlorodibenzo-para-diozin.  Epidemiology
     Blair A, Frauman DJ, Lubin JH, Fraumeni JF.  Lung cancer and other
       causes of death among licensed pesticide applicators.  Journal
       of the National Cancer Institute 1983;71:31-37.
     Blar A, White DW.  Leukemia cell types and agricultural practices
       in Nebraska.  Archives of Environmental Health 1985;40:211-214.
     Blair A, Malker H, Cantor KP, Burmeister L, Wiklund K.  Cancer
       among farmers.  Scandinavian Journal of Work and Environmental
       Health.  1085;11:397-407.
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 67
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     Breslin P, Kang HK, Lee Y, Burt V, Shepard BM.  Proportionate
       mortality study of US army and US marine corps veterans of the
       Vietnam war.  Journal of Occupational Medicine 1988;30:412-419.
     Brown LM, Blair A, Gibson R, Everett GD, Cantor KP, Schuman LM,
       Burmeister LF, Van Lier SF, Dick F.  Pesticide exposures and
       other agricultural risk factors of leukaemia.  Cancer Research
     Brownson RC, Novotny PE, Perry MC.  Cigarette smoking and adult
       leukemia - a meta-analysis.  Archives of Internal Medicine
     Bueno de Mesquita HB, Coornbos G, Van der Kuip DAM, Kogevinas M,
       Winkelmann R.  Occupational exposure to phenoxy herbicides and
       cancer mortality in The Netherlands.  American Journal of
       Industrial Medicine 1993;23:289-300.
     Burmeister LF.  Cancer mortality in Iowa farmers, 1971-78.
       Journal of the National Cancer Institute 1981;66:461-464.
     Burmeister LF, Van Lier SF, Isacson P. Leukemia and farm practices
       in Iowa.  American Journal of Epidemiology 1982;115:720-728.
     Burmeister LF, Everett GD, Van Lier S, Isacson P.  Selected cancer
       mortality and farm practices in Iowa.  American Journal of
       Epidemiology 1983;118:72-77.
     Donovan J, MacLennan R, Adena M.  Vietnam service and the risk of
       congenital anomalies - a case-control study.  Medical Journal of
       Australia 1984;140:394-397
     Doe JE, Paddle GM.  The evaluation of carcinogenic risk to humans:
       occupational exposures in the spraying and application of
       insecticides.  Regulatory Toxicology and Pharmacology
     Fingerhut MA, Halperin WE, Marlow DA, Piacitelli LA, Honchar PA,
       Sweeney MH, Greife AL, Dill PA, Streenland K.  Cancer mortality
       in workers exposed to 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin.  
       New England Journal of Medicine 1991;324:212-218.
     Fingerhut MA, Sweeney MH, Halperin WE, Schnorr TM.  The
       epidemiology of populations exposed to dioxin.  In: Rappe C,
       Buser HR, Dodet B, O'Neill IK (Ed), Environmental carcinogens -
       methods of analysis and exposure measurement, IARC Scientific
       Publications No 108.  International Agency for Research on
       Cancer, Lyon 1991.
     Hansen ES, Hasle H, Lander F. A cohort study on cancer incidence
       among Danish gardeners.  American Journal of Industrial Medicine
     Lynge E.  A follow-up study of cancer incidence among workers in
       manufacture of phenoxy herbicides in Denmark.  British Journal
       of Cancer 1985;52:259-270.
     Manz A, Berger J, Dwyer JH, Flesch-Janys D, Nagel S, Waltsgott H.
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 68
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

       Cancer mortality among workers in chemical plant contaminated
       with dioxin.  Lancet 1991;338:959-964.
     Morrison HJ, Wilkins K, Semenciw R, Mao Y, Wigle D.  Herbicides
       and cancer (review).  Journal of the National Cancer Institute
     Morrison H, Savitz D, Semenciw R, Hulka B, Mao Y, Morison D, Wigle
       D.  Farming and prostate cancer mortality.   American Journal of
       Epidemiology 1993;137:270-280.
     Pesatori AC, Consonni D, Tironi A, Landi MT, Zocchetti C,
       Bertazzi.  Cancer morbidity in the Seveso area 1976-1986.
       Chemosphere 1992;25:209-212.
     Ronco G, Costa G, Lynge E.  Cancer risk among Danish and Italian
       British Journal of Industrial Medicine 1992;49:220-225.
     Saracci R, Kogevinas M, Bertazzi P-A et al.  Cancer mortality in
       workers exposed to chlorophenoxy herbicides and chlorophenols.
       Lancet 1991;338:1027-1032.
     Siegel M.  Smoking and leukemia: evaluation of a causal
       hypothesis.  American Journal of Epidemiology 1993;138:1-9.
     Wigle DT, Semenciw RM, Wilkins K, Riedel D, Ritter L, Morrison HI,
       Mao Y.  Mortality study of Canadian male farm operators: non-
       Hodgkin's lymphoma mortality and agricultural practices in
       Journal of the National Cancer Institute 1990;82:575-582.

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 69
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                       _     ______   _______  __    _  _______
                      /\\    H    M   H        H\\   H  HHHHHHH
                     /  \\   H        H        H \\  H     H
                    /====\\  H   HHH  HHH      H  \\ H     H
                   /      \\ H_____H  H______  H   \\H     H
              ______    ______      _     __    _  ______   _______
              H     H  H     /)    /\\    H\\   H  H    M   H
              H     H  H____//    /  \\   H \\  H  H        H
              H     H  H   \\    /====\\  H  \\ H  H   HHH  HHH
              H_____H  H    \\  /      \\ H   \\H  H_____M  H______
                                .  _  .  _  .  .
                            -.- . -   .   - . -. -  .
                         - -  -   - . -   -  -    -  .-
                        -   .   .           .    -  -  -.
                      - .            . .  .    .   .  . -.
                    -.    .  .     .   U   S .  -        -.
                   -     .      .     .  .  -    .  . -   -.
                  -  .        .   .  -  -   .         .   -.
                  - .  .. V I E T N A M  V E T E R A N  . _ -
                 -   .   .    .    _ _   _ . _-_ .    -     -
                 - .            - -   -_- -_-xxx _ -.  . - .-.
                  - . .  .  .  - XXXXXxxXXXXXXXXXXXx -. - .- .
                  -    .  . XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX-.  .--.
                  - .-   XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX -.- -
                    .-.  XXXXXXXX   ]XXXXXXXXX  ]XXXXXXXX  .-  -
                     -.   XXXXXX       XXXXX      XXXXXX    -.- -
                    --      XXXXXX     XXXXXX    XXXXXX     --
                    -         XXXXXXXXX X'`XXX XXXXXXX      Y
                    Y          XXXXXXXXX    XXXXX XXX
                                XXXXXXX X X XXXXXXXX
                                 XXXXXXX XXX XXXXXX
                                 XXX XX X XXX XX XX
                                 XXXX            XX
                                  XXX XX XX XX XXXX
                                   XXX[ XX XX XXX
               "  I t ' s    o n l y    t e e n a g e    a c n e !  "
                                                   -Robert Nimmo-

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 70
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                    Veteran commo from Uncle Sam and ...

                      Women Veterans Health Programs
               Including Sexual Trauma Counseling Services
                       VA Pamphlet 10-114  June 1993
     A  number  of women veterans were victims of sexual assault  while 
     serving  on active military duty.   While some of these women have 
     sought  counseling for their sexual trauma,  many women have never 
     discussed their assault with anyone.   They are very uncomfortable 
     talking about it now, and even wonder if they can,  or if it would 
     matter.  Yet,  these women know that they have "not felt the same" 
     since it occurred.
     Unfortunately, this is a very common reaction of victims of sexual 
     assault.   Many events are never reported.   There are reasons for 
     this silence, many of them based on misconceptions about women who 
     have  been  victimized  sexually.   Nearly one-third of  all  rape 
     victims  develop  Post Traumatic Stress Disorder  (PTSD)  sometime 
     during  their  lifetime.   PTSD symptoms are often accompanied  by 
     physical problems and generally "not feeling well."
     Department of Veterans Affairs (VA)  health care professionals are 
     sensitive  to  the experience of sexual assault and the impact  it 
     can  have  on  a victim's physical  and  emotional  health.   They 
     understand  the  feelings  of  fear,  anxiety,  shame,  anger  and 
     embarrassment  that  victims of sexual assault can have when  they 
     try to talk about their trauma.   VA health care professionals can 
     help  women  who are coping with the trauma of sexual  assault  to 
     regain  their confidence,  self esteem,  and quality of life.   VA 
     provides confidential, priority counseling and related health care 
     services to eligible women veterans.
     Q-- What is the Women Veterans Health Programs Act of 1992?
     A-- Public Law 102-585, Veterans Health Care Act of 1992, enacted
         November 4, 1992,  established programs to improve health care 
         services for women veterans, including priority counseling for 
         sexual  trauma  and related health care services  to  eligible 
         women veterans.
     Q-- Who is eligible for care under the Women Veterans Health
         Programs Act of 1992?
     A-- VA may provide counseling to women veterans who VA determines
         require such counseling to overcome psychological trauma.  The 
         trauma  may result from a physical assault of a sexual nature, 
         battery  of  a  sexual  nature,  or  sexual  harassment  which 
         occurred  while serving on active military duty.   Public  Law 
         102-585,  defines  sexual harassment as repeated,  unsolicited 
         verbal  or  physical  contact  of a  sexual  nature  which  is 
         threatening in character.
     Q-- When must a woman veteran seek care under the Women Veterans
         Health Programs Act of 1992?
     A-- Currently  VA may provide counseling services through December 
         31,  1995.   To  be  eligible to receive counseling,  a  woman 
         veteran  must  seek counseling from VA within two years  after 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 71
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

         the  date  of  her discharge or release from  active  military 
         service.   Currently  a  woman veteran who was  discharged  or 
         released  from  active  military service before  December  31, 
         1991,  must seek counseling from VA prior to December 31, 1993 
     Q-- Is a woman veteran eligible to receive care for sexual trauma,
         although the assault was never reported when it occurred?
     A-- Yes.   To  be eligible to receive sexual trauma counseling and 
         related  health care from VA,  there is no requirement that  a 
         woman  veteran  must have reported the sexual trauma  when  it 
         occurred or at any time during her active military service.
     Q-- Where  can  a woman veteran receive care or  more  information 
         regarding the VA sexual trauma services?
     A-- A woman veteran seeking counseling and related health care for 
         sexual trauma should contact the Women Veterans Coordinator at 
         the  nearest  VA medical center or vet center for  assistance.  
         The  telephone number for the medical center or vet center can 
         be  found in the telephone directory under  "U.S.  Government" 
     Q-- What is disability compensation and who is eligible for this
     A-- Veterans  who  are disabled by injury or disease  incurred  or 
         aggravated  during  active service in the line of duty  during 
         wartime or peacetime service and discharged or separated under 
         other  than  dishonorable conditions are eligible for  monthly 
         payments  from  VA.   The  amount of  these  payments,  called 
         disability compensation, is based on the degree of disability.  
         Disabilities are rated from zero to 100 percent disabling,  in 
         increments   of  10  percent.    If  there  are  two  or  more 
         disabilities,  the  individual percentages of each are used to 
         determine  a combined disability evaluation.   Compensation is 
         not payable at the zero percent level.
     Q-- Can a woman veteran who was the victim of sexual assault while 
         serving on active duty qualify for disability benefits?
     A-- VA  may  pay compensation to a woman veteran for  disabilities 
         incurred  or  aggravated  in  the  line  of  duty,   including 
         disabilities  or  injuries resulting from  sexual  trauma.   A 
         Veterans  Benefits Counselor (VBC)  at a VA medical center  or 
         regional  office  can  explain  the  compensation  program  in 
         greater detail and assist in filing a claim.   Information may 
         also be obtained by calling 1-800-827-1000,  and speaking with 
         a VBC at the nearest VA regional office.
     Q-- Does  a  woman  veteran who was the victim of  sexual  assault 
         while   serving  on  active  duty  automatically  qualify  for 
         disability compensation?
     A-- No.  As stated above,  payment of compensation is based on the 
         degree  of  the service-connected disability or  disabilities.  
         VA must first determine whether there are current disabilities 
         related  to  military  service.   If disabilities  are  deemed 
         service  related,  VA then evaluates the degree of disability, 
         which  determines  the amount of compensation  payable.   Once 
         again,   compensation  is  not  payable  for  a  zero  percent 
         evaluation.   A woman who has been the victim of sexual trauma 
         may  or  may not have residual disability which can be  deemed 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 72
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

         service  connected,  or  may exhibit residuals which  are  not 
         compensable (i.e., evaluated at the zero percent level).
     Q-- Does sexual assault have an impact on the mental and physical
         health of the victim?
     A-- Having been the victim of rape appears to significantly impact 
         on  the overall health of the victim.   According to the  1988 
         report,  "Rape in America,"  nearly one-third (31 percent)  of 
         all rape victims develop Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) 
         sometime during their lifetime.  Additionally, researchers are 
         beginning  to notice a relationship between PTSD symptoms  and 
         an  increase  in physical health problems and reports of  "not 
         feeling well."
     Q-- What is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)?
     A-- Post  Traumatic  Stress  Disorder  is  a  recurrent  emotional 
         reaction  to a terrifying,  uncontrollable or life-threatening 
         event.  The symptoms frequently develop after a person's sense 
         of  safety  and security is violated.   Individuals with  PTSD 
         experience a variety of symptoms that often impede their daily 
         lives.   These  may  include sleep  disturbances,  nightmares, 
         emotional  instability,  feelings  of fear and anxiety  around 
         seemingly non-threatening situations,  impaired concentration, 
         and  increased  stress  or  problems  in  intimate  and  other 
         interpersonal relationships.  These reactions are common after 
         a trauma and are part of the initial adjustment process.
     Q-- What  other problems are commonly associated with rape-related 
     A-- Recent  research shows that women who have experienced rape or 
         other  violent crimes are more likely to develop problems with 
         depression,  drug and/or alcohol abuse,  and suicidal thoughts 
         than women who have not had such an experience.   Also,  it is 
         not uncommon for women to feel shame, guilt or confusion about 
         the rape itself.
     Q-- What  kind  of help does a person with some of these  symptoms 
     A-- Frequently,  people exposed to life-threatening trauma benefit 
         from   psychological   counseling.     Talking   about   one's 
         experience,  symptoms,  fears  and  concerns  with  a  trained 
         professional usually results in the reduction of such problems 
         and  helps a person restore his/her sense of personal  safety.  
         Victims of sexual assault or harassment have been successfully 
         treated in both individual and group therapy settings.
     Q-- How does a woman know whether she needs treatment or what kind 
         of treatment would be best for her?
     A-- If  a  women  has been the victim of a sexual assault  and  is 
         experiencing  any of the symptoms mentioned above,  or if  she 
         has  experienced a general and continuing feeling of  personal 
         discomfort,  the  most  important  thing for her to do  is  to 
         receive   an   evaluation  by  an  appropriate   health   care 
         professional  who  knows about the impact sexual  assault  can 
         have on a person's physical and emotional health.   The health 
         care  professional  can  provide  advice  regarding  available 
         treatment options or an appropriate referral.
     Q-- I  have  never discussed my assault with anyone and I am  very 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 73
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

         frightened  about talking about it now,  and even wonder if  I 
         can.  What can I do about this fear?
     A-- Unfortunately,  this  is a very common fear of women who  have 
         been the victims of sexual assault.  In fact,  it is estimated 
         that  only  sixteen  percent of the rapes that occur  in  this 
         country are ever officially reported.  Many of the reasons for 
         this  silence are based on society's stereotypes of women  who 
         have  been victimized sexually.   It is important to  remember 
         that   health  care  professionals  have  become  increasingly 
         sensitized  to the experience of sexual assault and the impact 
         it  can have on the victim.   As a result,  they are much more 
         able   to   respond  to  the  fears  and  anxieties  you   are 
         experiencing.   They  will also understand the difficulty  you 
         have  in discussing them with another person and will be  able 
         to help you express yourself in a way that is most comfortable 
         for you.
     The Women Veterans Health Program includes:
          * Priority outpatient counseling services and related
            health care services;
          * Education and counseling on the normal and expected
            responses to sexual trauma;
          * Assessment of the specific problem(s);
          * Treatment to assist with restoring physical and 
            emotional health;
          * Information and referrals for services and benefits
     For more information:
     We welcome inquiries about any aspect of the Women Veterans Health 
     Programs  Act  of  1992,  including VA  sexual  trauma  counseling 
     services.   To find out more about the VA health care services for 
     women  veterans,  contact  the Women Veterans Coordinator at  your 
     nearest  VA  medical  center or your nearest VA vet center  or  VA 
     Regional office.
     You  can  get  more information by calling  1-800-827-1000  or  by 
     contacting  the VA regional office,  medical center or vet  center 
     near you.

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 74
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                  Vietnam Women's Memorial Project, Inc.
                              "Sister Search"
     The  Vietnam  Women's  Memorial Project's  (VWMP) "SISTER  SEARCH"  
     is   a  program   designed  to locate the  military  and  civilian  
     women  who served their country during the Vietnam War.
     The  goals of "SISTER SEARCH"  are to facilitate hope and  healing 
     among women veterans; to provide a network for them; and to assist 
     research efforts on women who served during the Vietnam War.   All 
     women  veterans in the "SISTER SEARCH"  database will periodically 
     receive information on the Project's progress.
     Vietnam   era  women  veterans  are  asked  to  provide  as   much 
     information   as they feel comfortable sharing.    "Sister Search" 
     is  NOT  a locator service,   should an inquiry be made as to  the 
     whereabouts of a person included in the "SISTER SEARCH"  database, 
     the VWMP will pass the inquiry along in writing to the individual, 
     allowing her to decide whether she would like to respond.   If the 
     individual  is deceased,  the inquiry will be sent to the  closest 
     family member identified by the VWMP.
     The  VWMP  dedicated  the  Vietnam  Women's  Memorial,  the  first 
     memorial  in  the nation's capital to honor  women's  service,  on 
     November  11,   1993.    The  VWMP  is  a  non-profit,   volunteer 
     organization.   Its  primary purposes to educate the public  about 
     the  women  who  served during the Vietnam era and to  locate  and 
     provide a network for these women continue.
     For more information, contact:
                              "SISTER SEARCH"
                              Vietnam Women's Memorial Project
                              2001 'S' Street NW
                              Suite #302
                              Washington DC  20009
                              Fax 202/986-3636

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 75
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                  Vietnam Women's Memorial Project, Inc.
            2001 S Street NW - Suite 302 - Washington DC 20009
                      202/328-7253  FAX: 202/986-3636
                               SISTER SEARCH
     Name:________________________Vietnam Era Name: ___________________
                                  (If different)
     Address:_____________________________________ Work #: ____/_______
     City:________________ State: __ Zip:________  Home #:
     Branch of Service or
     Civilian Organization: ___________________________________________
                           In-Country (Vietnam)
     Assignment #1: ___________________________________________________
     Start Date: ___________________________ End Date: ________________
     Assignment #2: ___________________________________________________
     Start Date: ___________________________ End Date: ________________
     Assignment #3: ___________________________________________________
     Start Date: ___________________________ End Date: ________________
                          Vietnam Era (1959-1975)
     Assignment: ______________________________________________________
     Start Date: ___________________________ End Date: ________________
     The  Project  receives inquires from the press and researchers  in 
     search  of  Vietnam  era women veterans who are willing  to  share 
     their experiences.Your participation as a press/research/education 
     contact is strictly optional.
     I  authorize  the Vietnam Women's Memorial Project to  release  my 
     name  to individuals or organizations who are seeking  information 
     on  Vietnam era women veterans for press inquiries,  research  or 
     educational activities.
     Signature ________________________________________ Date __________
     I  authorize  the Vietnam Women's Memorial Project to  release  my 
     name  to the National Associate Volunteer,  Regional and/or  State 
     Coordinator in my area.
     FOR OFFICE USE     | Signature ___________________ Date __________
     DATE RECEIVED:     |
     TRANSFER:          |
                        | Please  list  the names and addresses of  any 
     ENTER:             | other  Vietnam era women veterans you know on 
                        | the back of this form.
     COMMENTS:          |
     -------------------| Thank you for participating in SISTER SEARCH

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 76
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                                    O  YOU can help support the
      O                            O  VIETNAM WOMEN'S MEMORIAL PROJECT
       O                          O  with a direct donation (Federal
        O      A legacy of       O  employees: VWMP's CFC #0487) or by
         O  Healing and Hope    O  purchasing any of the products
          O                    O  listed on this page.
           O                  O
            O                O         Tell 'em NAMVET sent ya!
             O __________   O
              O          ) O    Commemorative Dedication Program    5.00
             /(O)       / O\    #113 Dedication Poster/Print       10.00
            /          / O  \   #114 Paperweight w/Memorial Design 10.00
           / VIETNAM  /      \  #115 Lapel Pin w/Memorial Design    5.00
          /  WOMEN'S /HONORING\ #116 Cassette, Official Dedication Song
         / MEMORIAL /\   THE   \   'TIL THE WHITE DOVE FLIES ALONE  5.00
        /  PROJECT /  \ WOMEN   \  #111 White Visor w/Project Name on it
       /          /    \ WHO     \   One size fits all  100% poly   8.00
      /          /      \ SERVED / #112 Poplin Hat in Tan or White with
     (__________/        \      /    Brown imprint 1-Size Fits All 10.00
                          \    /  #105 USA-Minted VWMP Bronze Coin 10.00
                           \  /  #106 VWMP Silver Coin             10.00
                            \/    (105/106 1-troy oz; silver $ may vary)
                     #117 Book: VISIONS OF WAR, DREAMS OF PEACE    10.00
     #110 Generous sz. cotton Canvas Tote Natural w/dk grn embdry  25.00
     #118 Nat color 100% cot T-shirt w/"dog tag" design in dk grn  15.00
     #109 Front/Back views of Memorial on 100% cotton T-shirt in
                                Natural color.   Sizes M,L,XL,XXL  15.00
     #102 Staff Shirt> Forest gn w/sqd-off btm & banded sleeve in
       50/50 w/cm color Project Name on left chest Sizes S,M,L,XL  30.00
     #103 ShtSl Beefy-T Forest Gn w/Project name in white raised
       print on the left chest                 Sizes S,M,L,XL,XXL  17.00
     #120  Same as above in Natural w/grn imprint                  15.00
     #104 LgSl 100% cot T-shirt in Forest grn w/Project name in
       white raised print on the left chest.       Sizes S,M,L,XL  22.00
     #107 9oz Hvywt Swtshrt fm Lee Co in natural color w/Project name
       embrdrd lft chest in dk grn.  Generous Sizing     S,M,L,XL  45.00
     #108 Hvywt 100% cot sweater Smooth-stitched yoke  Bdy/slvs in rich
       nubby texture knit. Project Name left chest dk gn S,M,L,XL  75.00
     Shipping & Handling:    up to $30 - $3.50     $31 to $70 - $4.50
                           $71 to $100 - $5.50   $101 to $200 - $6.50
     Sold to  __________________________________________________________
     Address  __________________________________________________________
     Phone    __________________________________________________________
     Prod  Quantity  Size  Description             Per Unit       Total
     ____  _______   ____  ____________________    _______      _______
     ____  _______   ____  ____________________    _______      _______
     ____  _______   ____  ____________________    _______      _______
     Sub-Total ______  Donation _____  Shipping ______     Total_______
     Please make checks or money order out to:
       Vietnam Women's Memorial Project, Inc.
       2001 S St., NW Suite 302  Washington, DC  20009

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 77
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                               Bits n' Pieces

                                 Vets Bits
                          Submitted by Joyce Flory
                        With Thanks to Earl Appleby
                        VETLink #13 - Las Cruces, NM
                               (505) 523-2811
                       Area Ablenews (A FidoNet Echo) Jul-18-94
     Twenty-six  Desert  Storm veterans are suing 11 US firms for  more 
     than  a  billion  dollars.  Their  class-action  suit,   filed  in 
     Angleton,  TX  Monday,  charges  they suffered  disabilities  from 
     biological  and chemical weapons used by the Iraqis.  According to 
     the  plaintiffs'  attorney,  David  Bickham,  the  defendants  are 
     accused  of  manufacturing  biological compounds  they  knew  were 
     dangerous  and could be acquired by "an outlaw country like Iraq." 
     (Gulf War Vets Sue Firms, Citing Illness, USA Today, 6/8/94) 
     ABLEnews  Editor's Note:  See also,  Lawsuit Seeks $1 Billion  for 
     Gulf War Syndrome, Washington Times, 6/9/94) 
     "One  puzzle  for military alumni has been why the national  media 
     have   not   examined  the  Clinton  administration's  record   in 
     appoint(ing?)  veterans  to  top slots.  Because charges of  draft 
     dodging were an issue in the 1992 campaign,  and because prominent 
     vets,  including  former  Beirut hostage Terry Anderson and  Lewis 
     Puller  Jr.  supported candidate Clinton,  veterans expected  they 
     would  be included in an administration that 'looks like America.' 
     Last September Lew Puller and I asked the White House for its data 
     on vet appointees,  since the Office of Presidential Personnel was 
     giving   information  on  its  appointments  of  women,   African-
     Americans, Hispanics, and gays to some members of the press.  When 
     we were refused the information, we began our own survey... 48% of 
     all  American  men over age 35 [are vets].  For men age  39-59  in 
     Senate-confirmed slots. 18% are military alumni, and the figure is 
     8%  for  men in that age group in the White House staff...  In the 
     Bush White House as of January 1993...  53%  of men age 39-59 were 
     vets...  In  1992,  6.97  million vets voted  for  Clinton...  Mr. 
     Clinton  beat  Mr.  Bush  by  5.5 million  votes...  How  can  the 
     president  make  speeches  honoring vets when there is a  big  gap 
     between the portion of vets he appoint and their [numbers]  in the 
     US population?... Unless the president acts,  vets can be forgiven 
     for  viewing the administration that 'looks like America'  as  one 
     that  looks more like the Students for a Democratic  Society,  the 
     1960s  radical  protest group."  --John  Wheeler,  founder,  Valor 
     Alliance.  (Veterans  Don't Seem to 'Look Like American,  Wheeler, 
     op-ed, Washington Times, 6/9/94) 
       ABLEnews Editor's Note:  Valor Alliance is a network of academic 
     and business leaders dedicated to combating discrimination against 
     American veterans. Mr.  Wheeler,  chairman of the Vietnam Veterans 
     Memorial  Fund from 1979-1989,  campaigned for Clinton in the 1992 
     In  collaboration  with  the Departments of Veterans  Affairs  and 
     Health and Human Services,  the Department of Defense is launching 
     a  three-point  program to investigate the illnesses  reported  by 
     veterans of the Persian Gulf War. According to Dr. Stephen Joseph, 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 78
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     assistant secretary of defense for health affairs, the first phase 
     involves a "coordinated, comprehensive, and aggressive"  effort to 
     determine  the causes of the symptoms cited by Gulf vets.  In  the 
     second phase.  Dr.  Harrison Spencer,  dean of Tulane University's 
     School of Public Health, reviews plans to study the syndrome.  The 
     third  phase creates a forum of national medical and public health 
     experts to advise the three agencies in their research efforts and 
     to channel public comment. (DoD Launches a New Medical Program for 
     Gulf Vets, Pentagram, 6/10/94) 
     "Prodded by veterans who say they have been forsaken by the nation 
     they  served,  the Clinton administration endorsed a bill Thursday 
     that   would  compensate  victims  of  mysterious  'Persian   Gulf 
     Syndrome'  ailments.'  This legislation is revolutionary.  We have 
     never before provided payment for something we're not even certain 
     exists,'  Veteran  Affairs Secretary Jesse Brown said in testimony 
     to  a  House Veteran Affairs panel...  'We're headed in the  right 
     direction  although  we still have a long ways to go,'  said  Phil 
     Budahn,  spokesman for the American Legion.  'We would have wished 
     it would have been faster.' He added that it took 15 years for the 
     government  to take similar action for Agent Orange victims  after 
     the Vietnam War... 'We cannot always wait on research,' (Rep. G.V. 
     'Sunny')  Montgomery (D-MS,  chairman of the full committee)  told 
     the subcommittee on compensation, pension,  and insurance.  'While 
     we wait,  severe medical problems are preventing some Persian Gulf 
     veterans from working and supporting their families. They need our 
     help now.'" (Syndrome Pay, Martinsburg Journal, 6/10/94) 
       ABLEnews  Editor's Note:  See also Illness Pay for Gulf Vets  Is 
     Endorsed, Washington Post, 6/10/94. 
     CURE  Comment:  We salute the vets who are fighting the good fight 
     for  Persian  Gulf vets like my brother SFC Dwight David  Appleby. 
     One for all and all for one! 
     According  to  a report in the Santa Crud Sentinel,  the Gulf  War 
     Syndrome may have been caused by a combination of insect repellent 
     and  anti-nerve-gas pills.  The California paper reported that  US 
     Department  of Agriculture researcher James Goss,  in Gainesville, 
     Fl,   accidentally  discovered  that  the  military-issued  insect 
     repellant  became  10  times more potent when  combined  with  the 
     pills.  20,00  Persian  Gulf veterans have suffered from  fatigue, 
     rashes,  memory loss,  stomach problems,  damaged nervous systems, 
     muscle  and joint pain,  and other health problems since the  1991 
     conflict.  US  military uniforms were treated with  permethrin,  a 
     powerful agricultural insecticide. ('Gulf War Syndrome'  Linked to 
     Repellent, Pills, Washington Times, 6/14/94) 
     "Spokane, WA--Six weeks after Dean A. Mellberg was discharged from 
     the  military for emotional problems,  he stuffed an assault rifle 
     into a gym bag, took a cab to Fairchild Air Force Base, and killed 
     four  people,  including  two therapists who had  recommended  his 
     discharge... A military policeman killed him in the parking lot... 
     Mellberg, 20, ...  had had problems with a roommate in a dormitory 
     when he was stationed at Fairchild,  said the base commander.  The 
     Seattle  Times  reported  the dispute started last year  when  the 
     roommate  started rumors that Mellberg was homosexual.  'They  put 
     out rumors he was gay...  They stole chairs from inside his room.. 
     They  flattened  the tires on his bike,'  said Mellberg's  mother, 
     Lois Mellberg of Lansing,  MI...  The gunman targeted Maj.  Thomas 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 79
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     Brigham, 31, a psychiatrist, and his office mate, Alan London, 40, 
     a  psychologist.  Both  had recommended Mellberg for  a  discharge 
     based  on psychiatric problems.  'He knew where he was  going.  He 
     went directly to that office,' Sheriff Goldman said."  (2 Shooting 
     Victims Were Therapists, Baltimore Sun, 6/22/94) 
       ABLEnews Editor's Note: See also, Spokane Killer Planned Attack, 
     Washington Times, 6/22/94. 
     "Gulf war syndrome--  the illnesses plaguing thousands of veterans 
     cannot  be traced to a single cause,  the Pentagon said  Thursday. 
     The  findings  of  a task force headed by  Nobel  Laureate  Joshua 
     Lederberg  parallel those of a National Institutes of Health panel 
     and  are  sure  to anger vets who say they  can't  get  treatment. 
     "There's  a long history of well-founded skepticism about  similar 
     Pentagon  reports,"  says  American Legion spokesman Phil  Budahn, 
     recalling  the Vietnam veterans'  struggle to win confirmation  of 
     Agent Orange's health effects. The report found no evidence Iraqis 
     used  chemical or biological weapons.  But veterans and members of 
     Congress  say those agents,  as well as oil  fumes,  environmental 
     pollutants or medication to protect troops, may cause the fatigue, 
     joint  pain,  memory  loss,  and rashes many vets  report.  Deputy 
     Defense  Secretary  John Deutsch says the hunt will go on  because 
     the  Pentagon 'firmly believes there are service men and women who 
     are  ill  as a result of the Gulf  experience.'"  (Gulf  Ills:  No 
     Single Cause, John Ritter, USA Today, 6/24/94) 
       ABLEnews Editor's Note: See also,  No Cause Found for Gulf Ills, 
     Washington Post, 6/24/94) 

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 80
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                         Cambodia            |
                                             |       Hanoi
       Bac Si                          -----/_\-----
                          -O==============<  :  >==============O-
                                   ( )     (...)      ( )
          Rockpile                 )|
                               _+|__|_      Medic!
                              |---  --|
       _____________                             Camranh Bay
      / /  /   \  \ \
     /   /   /   \   \    Rach-hui River
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                         Phubai
      \      |      /                    ((_______________))
       \     |     /                          ___|_     ___
        \    |    /             Saigon       /  | |  (( _|_ ))
         \   |   /                        __/___| |____/ *|
          \  |  /                       [________________|
           \ | /                         \_______||_____
            \ /  Binhlong Province
             |                                  Blackhorse
            / \
              Dak To                    |
                                       /O\           Tayninh Province
                               o   ++   O   ++   o
                  |              Patience ... Hell!!!
     /|         |          |         |         |\\             TET
                                          Bien Hoa
      Big Red One ____________   ======= _________________/|_____...
                  |           |  "  ===  |_______________| |-----:::
                  |._    -    " ) |_|___|
                               / /  |___|      The Chicago Eight

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 81
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                 Babykillers, that's what we were called.
                          VETLink #1 - Tampa, FL 
                              (813) 249-8323
     Men  who were sent to fight in a Police Action that they were  not 
     allowed to win.
     Men  who were sent to fight and then were doused by chemicals that 
     are now causing them to have children that are deformed.
     Men  who  had  booby-trapped children come to  them  and  detonate 
     Men  who  were  sent  to fight and then were  ridiculed  by  their 
     friends  and  neighbors and a whole host of people who  knew  more 
     about the Police Action than the men who were fighting.
     Men  who  were sent to fight and saw their buddies killed and  now 
     wish they were the ones killed.
     Men who flew planes and dropped bombs where they were told and now 
     wish they were under the bombs when they exploded.
     Men  who  manned guns on Navy ships and saw children blown up  and 
     then came home to a child born just before they returned.
     Men who are now cheering for the renewal of patriotism in our land 
     but wonder where the patriotism was while they were fighting.
     Men  who  fought and lost arms and legs and other parts  of  their 
     bodies and now are being told they don't deserve the pensions that 
     they receive.
     Men  who  still have problems that were caused by a Police  Action 
     that is ten years in the past.
     And  most  of  all the men and remains of men who are still  in  a 
     foreign land and can't be brought home.
     Babykillers, that's what we were called.

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 82
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                            VETLink BBS Spotlight

                         Submitted by Joyce Flory
                  With Very Special Thanks to Russ Terry
                       VETLink #13 - Las Cruces, NM
                              (505) 523-2811
     Russ Terry, a Vietnam veteran who suffers from post traumatic 
     stress disorder and operates a computer bulletin board to help 
     other veterans in need. 
                              By Gregg Patton
                             PATTON ON PEOPLE
     Vietnam veteran Russ Terry, who suffers from post traumatic stress 
     disorder, operates a series of computer bulletin boards to help 
     troubled veterans. 
     About once a year, Russ Terry feels it coming on stronger -- the 
     frayed nerves, the need to hole up.  Hide. 
     So he goes to the Veterans Administration Hospital in Loma Linda 
     and signs himself into the psychiatric ward for maybe a week or 
     10-day stay. 
     "I talk to the doctors, get a little tuneup, maybe they adjust my 
     medications," says Terry. 
     The periodic "tuneups" are part of coping with post traumatic 
     stress disorder (PTSD), which has left the 44-year old Vietnam 
     veteran on 100 percent disability. 
     For nearly 10 years after he came home on a stretcher from 
     Vietnam, Terry was a model employee, working himself into a 
     supervisory position in the aero-space industry. 
     In the last 15 years, he has become agoraphobic -- afraid to leave 
     his Yucaipa home, which he shares with his wife, Linda, and three 
     school-age daughters.  Linda has had to talk him out of closets, 
     where he has hidden for hours at a time.  If he sleeps, it's only 
     briefly, after daybreak, and it's always punctuated with gruesome 
     nightmares of Vietnam. 
     The last day he worked, in 1985, he suffered a severe flashback 
     and attacked a fellow employee, an Asian, at a company Christmas 
     When he does leave the house, which he does only with close 
     friends or family, he prepares for the ordeal by throwing up.  The 
     anxiety makes him ill. 
     These are the things that have cost the Terry's friendships, 
     financial prosperity and normal family relationships. 
     "People in my own family will say 'Why does he act like that?'" 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 83
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     says Linda Terry. 
     These are the things that make him 100 percent disabled. 
     But not useless.  From his solitude, he reaches out -- by 
     computer.  Surrounded by American flags and other patriotic 
     mementoes in his home office, he operates a series of computer 
     bulletin boards designed to help other veterans with almost any 
     kind of trouble. 
     Trouble getting benefits from the VA.  Trouble with drugs.  
     Trouble finding lost friends or family.  Troubles of the lonely, 
     alienated, PTSD victim who just wants to chat electronically. 
     Connected by software and phone lines, a man who copes with 
     society only painfully face to face, spends most of his long 
     waking hours committed to making life easier for hundreds of 
     He says he lives for his daughters' well-being.  He credits Linda 
     for bearing with him, when many wouldn't.  But he also needed 
     something for himself. 
     "If I didn't have this," he says, pointing to his computers, "I'd 
     be in the hospital.  This gives me self-worth." 
     Terry grew up a patriotic kid in Downey, dropping out of high 
     school to enlist in 1967.  The traumatic experiences of his 
     military life began immediately.  He had just turned 18 in the 
     fall of 1967 when he was ordered to the Pentagon to expel anti-war 
     demonstrators -- with bloody force. 
     "We hurt people," he says.  "These were kids my own age, 
     Americans.  I split one little girl's face open with my rifle 
     It was the first of many compromising episodes.  In Vietnam, he 
     drove bulldozers, clearing jungle to uncover Viet Cong hiding 
     places.  He and his unit were constant targets of snipers.  One 
     close friend died in his arms, covering him with blood from a 
     bullet hole in the neck. 
     "He had no vocal cords, but he was talking, begging me to tell his 
     parents and his girlfriend that he loved them," says Terry.  "I 
     wanted to take his place." 
     Once his bulldozer crashed through the jungle floor, into an 
     underground shelter on top of a group of villagers. 
     "They were screaming.  My commanding officer jumped into the hole, 
     stuck a pistol in my face, told me I had five minutes to get my 
     bulldozer out of there," says Terry.  "I turned it back on.  I 
     ground those people up." 
     He says it is their faces he sees and their screams he hears in 
     his nightmares. 
     "They're chastising me," he says.  "That's PTSD reality." 
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 84
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     He did two tours in Vietnam, a total of 19 months.  He left when 
     his bulldozer hit a mine, leaving him with two dislocated knees, a 
     broken hip and a jammed back.  He was put in a body cast and 
     shipped home. 
     In San Diego, home not more than an hour, he was spit at by two 
     civilians.  It was nothing new.  On leave the year before, in 
     uniform, he had been spit at in the San Francisco airport.  He 
     learned to keep his mouth shut about the war, a trait experts say 
     is a key factor in PTSD. 
     "I didn't even know he was in Vietnam until years after we were 
     married, when all of this started," says Linda. 
     Discharged in 1970, Terry found work in the defence industry, then 
     as a quality control inspector for Deutsch in Banning.  He met 
     Linda Freetly there and they married.  Around 1978, Terry began 
     having stomach pains.  In July 1979 he collapsed with chest pains. 
     Over the next six years, he was in and out of several jobs.  As 
     symptoms reoccurred and worsened, the VA would recommend he quit 
     working, but wouldn't offer full disability pay.  The PTSD went 
     undiagnosed because doctors thought Terry's Vietnam stories were 
     nonsense: A clerical error indicated he had never served there. 
     Finally, after the 1985 incident in which he attacked a fellow 
     worker, one doctor checked, discovered the error and finally 
     diagnosed the disorder. 
     Terry has been told there is no cure, only sedatives to take and 
     coping skills to learn.  His family copes too. 
     "I married two men -- the PTSD Russ is not the one I first met," 
     says Linda Terry. 
     "If I suffer PTSD, then my wife, my kids, my dog and my cat suffer 
     too," says Russ Terry, who eases the pain mainly through his $290-
     per-month computer networking habit. 
     "I'm not going to take money for helping people.  I just want them 
     to know there's help -- for people like me, too.  I can't sleep, I 
     have flashbacks, but I can do something worthwhile. 
     "You don't have to commit suicide.  You don't have to do anything 
     You can log onto his computer network by calling (909) 797-1835 or 
     3764.  Or you can call Terry in person and ask questions, (909) 
     He grins, "I'm not going anywhere." 
     (JOYCE'S NOTE: CA. newspaper name and date unknown, 1994)

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 85
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                            Eternal Vigilance ...

                      NamVet/IVVEC Service Department
                          by G. Joseph Peck, ESO
        Electronic Veterans' Centers of America Corporation (EVAC)
                                 Tampa, FL
                         Now we've done it 
                         Electronic \ Service    \
                                _____) Department )_____
                      )                    )    gjp
                     / O O O O O O O O O/_/|
                    /<> O O O O O O O O O/ |
                   /MM O O O O O O O  MM/  |
                  /   ___________      /  .
                 /O  (___________) O O/ .       11 Nov 94
     ELECTRONIC SERVICE DEPARTMENT: For many of you who weren't aware, 
     we have an Electronic Service Department here in NamVet which 
     attempts to help any/all veterans and/or their families with 
     things such as information requests, discharge upgrades, 
     employment help and, generally, anything veteran-oriented that is 
     needed to help America's veterans. 
     Since moving our corporate headquarters to Tampa, Florida we've 
     contacted a few veteran service organizations concerning helping 
     with their veteran service operations and attending a few of the 
     service officer schools.  The knowledge gained through any/all 
     service schools will be imparted to our many VETLink BBS  
     operators and, in turn, THEIR service may be able to help YOU in 
     the near future.  Stay tuned - and, if you can, help us grow!
     "Veteran Service," though, isn't always contained on a DVA Form or 
     in a DVA medical facility.  Veteran Service, as we've discovered - 
     and the next three pages reveal - "happens" when its need is 
     There are many other areas in which we have served - and have been
     helped to continue in our efforts to serve you and all our brother 
     and sister veterans and their families.  
     For those of you who have helped - THANK YOU...
     For those of you we can help - THANK YOU... for allowing us the 
     opportunity to prove the UNITY in our veteran commUNITY!!!  

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 86
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                           Treat Our Flag Right
                              By Gjoseph Peck
                         NamVet's Managing Editor
                          VETLink #1 - Tampa, FL
                              (813) 249-8323
     Mr. XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX, General Manager
     Post Office Box XXXXX, XXXXXXX XXXX, Florida  3XXXX-XXXX
     Dear General Manager XXXXXXXXXXX,
     The  flag of our great country -  and oftentimes an MIA/POW flag - 
     as  well  as the echoing sounds of "The Star Spangled  Banner"  or 
     "God Bless America"  remind those present at baseball and football 
     games  and most places where Americans are gathered together at  a 
     public event of our freedom and the high prices paid to attain and 
     maintain it.  The flag(s) are not retired (do not come down) until 
     the  event has concluded.   The American flag flies proudly in the 
     center of xxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx Track.
     An  average  of  14  to  18 percent of the  total  wagered  in  an 
     individual  xxxxx  race goes to the State.   Rounding DOWN  dollar 
     odds  to  the nearest dime results in increased revenue  to  maybe 
     both the track and the state government - sometimes to the tune of 
     millions of dollars per season.  An exercise of freedom.
     More  than  3620  young men from the State of Florida  lost  their 
     lives  in Vietnam in support of the freedom we today enjoy.   Many 
     more in other wars and conflicts.
     It  brought  tears to my eyes to note that the American  flag  was 
     retired  at the end of the xxth and prior to the beginning of  the 
     xxth  race  in  your  evening  performance of  27  August  1994  - 
     especially  when it is located in an area so highly populated with 
     American  military veterans.   Surely,  freedom means more to  the 
     management  of  xxxxxx  xxxxxxxxxxx  Track than  something  to  be 
     hastily  put  away  in order that its freedom-loving  patrons  can 
     wager more money?
             Yours in Service to America ... and my fellow man
                   In kindness, honesty, and good faith
                         G. Joseph Peck, President
              Electronic Veterans' Centers of America, Corp.

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 87
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                             3 September 1994
     Post Office Box XXXXX XXXXX, Florida  3XXXX-XXXX
     Dear Mr. XXXX,
     Reference is made to the complaint voiced in the enclosed
     copy of my 27 August 1994 letter sent to: XXXXX XXXXXXXX, XX, -
     Chairman of the Board; XXXX XXXXXXXX - President/General Manager;
     XXXXXXXX  XXXXXX  -  Director of Public  Relations,  and  XXXXXXXX 
     XXXXXXXXXX  XXX,  Paddock Judge complaining of the lack of respect 
     given  the  flag  of our country.     Exactly  the  same  practice 
     occurred  this  evening,  3  September 1994,  and  I  am  terribly 
     incensed that 1) the practice continues,  and 2)  not a single one 
     of the above-mentioned addressee's has even bothered to respond to 
     my previous communication to them concerning this matter.  Sitting 
     at the dining table we'd reserved tonight was a WWII veteran,  two 
     mothers  and  two wives of veterans,  and myself,  a  Vietnam  era 
     veteran.   The  total  bill for our meals and drinks came to  over 
     $200.  We all observed the repeated practice of disrespect for our 
     flag.     We  will  not  consider  returning  until  the  practice 
     complained  of herein and in my previous letters has ceased  -  or 
     the management,  realizing that it's display of the flag is but an 
     apparent  act of hypocrisy,  ceases to display it.   In  addition, 
     should  I  not hear,  in writing,  from you or any of  the  above-
     mentioned  addressee's  of XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX  Track  concerning 
     this matter no later than 10 September 1994,  as well as notifying 
     the  international  network  of veterans that I head,  I  will  be 
     contacting local and national veteran organizations and members of 
     the news media.
     I know you are as deeply concerned as am I and hope that you might 
     be  able to aid in an amicable resolution of this most distressing 
          Yours, In Service to America . . . . and my fellow man
                   In kindness, honesty, and good faith
                         G. Joseph Peck, President
              Electronic Veterans' Centers of America, Corp.

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 88
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                             10 October 1994
     Mr. G. Joseph Peck, President
      Electronic Veterans' Centers of America, Corp.
     Post Office Box 261692
     Tampa, Florida  33685-1692
     Dear Mr. Peck,
     I  hope  that you've noticed that we took your comments about  the 
     flag under advisement, and have changed our procedures.
     The flag now flies until the end of the 13th race.
     Thank you for correcting us!
                       XXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX Track
                       XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXX, XXXX.
                       Post Office Box XXXXX XXXXX, Florida  3XXXX-XXXX

     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 89
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

                         IVVEC Phonebook/Information

                              IVVEC Phonebook
                          Submitted by Joyce Flory
                        VETLink #13 - Las Cruces, NM
                               (505) 523-2811
     If  any  of the following information is inaccurate or  incomplete, 
     please  contact  me  through the VIETNAM_VETS Echo  or  NetMail  at 
     1:305/105 (FidoNet), 19:300/100, or 19:1/52 (VETNet). 
     I  would,  also,  like to know if any of these boards are Pay BBS's 
     (pay  per hour)  or Subscriber BBS's (for extended time,  etc.  you 
     must  pay a fee).   I feel you vets have paid enough without having 
     to  pay  for vet information,  access to the NAM_VET  echo,  or  to 
     download  the  NAM_VET  newsletter AND have a right to  know  which 
     boards charge. 
     Though  I regularly check the listings against the Nodelist to make 
     sure  they  have  the correct phone number(s),  I have  no  way  of 
     knowing (short of calling them all - grin) *if* they carry the echo 
     or  not.   Remember,  this list is only as good as my  information.  
     Your help and information would be greatly appreciated. 
                                                     Thank you;
                                                     Joyce (K.O.T.L.)
     Updated 11-10-94
     Brisbane, Queensland  Lands MultiLine BBS     011-061-07-391-3501
     CN Canoe, B.C.     Lyman Hills Fortress        604-832-7183
     CN Etobicoke, Ont. CRS Online                  416-213-6037
     CN Etobicoke, Ont. SomethingELSE TBBS          416-236-3125
     CN Ottawa, Ont.    Power House BBS             613-744-5894
     CN Thunder Bay, Ont.  Online Now               807-345-7248
     CN Thunder Bay, Ont.  Online Now               807-345-1531
     CN Regina, Sask.   Vet's Perspective BBS/      306-789-9909-NL !
                        VETLink #57
     AL Athens          Sleepless Knights           205-233-5730
     AL Decatur         Byte Swap                   205-355-2983
     AL Gardendale      VETLink #48                 205-631-4513-NL !*
     AL Millbrook       King James Bible            205-285-5948
     AL Mobile          Di's Online Cafe            205-661-8945
     AL Montgomery      C.C.S. OnLine               205-281-1331
     AL Pleasant Grove  Family Smorgas-Board        205-744-0943-NL !
                        (VETLink #26) 
     AK Fairbanks       Sodalitas (VETLink #62)     907-451-6499-NL !
     AR Benton          The Fishin' Hole            501-794-4072
     AR Fairfield Bay   Fairfield Bay/Vets BBS      501-884-6277-NL !
                        (VETLink #50)
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 90
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     AR Strickler       Gensoft                     501-761-9600
     AZ Fountain Valley The Mall (VETLink #39)      602-837-7808-NL !
     AZ Mesa            The Sleep Robber BBS        602-985-1088
     AZ Phoenix         AzCLU BBS                   602-650-1180
       Mon. thru Fri. - 6pm to 8am; Weekends - 6pm Fri. to 8am Mon.
     AZ Phoenix         The GhostRider BBS          602-439-2226
     AZ Phoenix         The Messenger               602-547-9524
     AZ Phoenix         Nat'l Congress For Men BBS  602-840-4752
     AZ Phoenix         Nighthawk BBS               602-582-1127-PB*
     AZ Sierra Vista    United We Stand, America    602-459-0013
     CA Azusa           Azusa Pacific BBS           818-969-9170
     CA Bakersfield     Servicemen's BBS Network    805-399-9607-NL !
                        (VETLink #71)
     CA Castro Valley   Combat Arms BBS             510-537-1777
     CA Claremont       Interamnia BBS              909-624-2246
     CA Clovis          Clovis-Net BBS              209-292-3530
     CA Davis           Dynasoft Node               916-753-8788
     CA El Segundo      Spider's Web                310-416-9901
     CA Glendora        Library BBS                 818-914-0221
     CA Hayward         G A D M                     510-886-1621
     CA Los Angeles     Long_Island RB              310-370-4113
     CA Los Angeles     SoCalNet EC                 818-969-9542
     CA Mission Viejo   The Solar System            714-707-4625
     CA Mission Viejo   The Solar System            714-837-9677
     CA Nipomo          Chthonic BBS                805-343-6018 
     CA Novato          McBlob's Super BBS          415-382-9410
     CA Novato          Mover Mouse BBS             415-898-2644
     CA Oakland         LZ/Nightline (VETLink #22)  510-251-9413-NL ! 
     CA Ontario         The Diamond Bar BBS         909-947-7478
     CA Ontario         The Diamond Bar BBS         909-923-1031
     CA Orange          Ol' Codger's BBS            714-639-1139
     CA Poway           SGT ROCK's BBS              619-748-5406
     CA Redlands        Tripping in America         909-381-6013
     CA Riverside       Solid Rock BBS              909-785-9176
     CA Sacramento      Humanx Commonwealth BBS     916-737-1844
     CA Sacramento      Seanachie                   916-481-3552
     CA Sacramento      Siren                       916-482-9976
     CA Sacramento      Siren                       916-486-2963
     CA San Diego       Analog Man/VETLink #53      619-4497-0113-NL !
     CA San Diego       FarOut BBS                  619-581-9049
     CA San Diego       Open Forum                  619-284-2924
     CA San Francisco   PC GFX Exchange             415-337-5416
     CA San Mateo       Skeptic's Board             415-572-0359
     CA Santa Rosa      Sonoma Online               707-545-0785
     CA West Covina     R/C Model Plane             818-919-2879
     CA Yucaipa         The Zoo/VETLink #33         909-797-1835-NL !
     CO Aurora          Dustoff                     303-343-8810
     CO Aurora          The Silver Hammer           303-766-8035
     CO Boulder         Pinecliffe HST DS           303-642-0703
     CO Colorado Sprgs  Earth Station Alpha         719-636-8979
     CO Colorado Sprgs  Electric Locksmith          719-390-9249
     CO Denver          HotelNet                    303-296-1300
     CO Golden          LES-COM-net                 303-526-2047
     CO Littleton       InterConnect                303-420-1942
     CO Woodland Park   High Reaches CyberSchool    719-687-5974
     CT Branford        Alice's Restaurant          203-488-1115
     CT Branford        Fernwood  OS 2 Line 2       203-481-7934
     CT Danbury         Treasure Island             203-791-8532-NL
     CT Granby          Blackjack BBS               203-653-6646
     Seventh Annual NamVet                                      Page 91
     Volume  7, Number  1                             November 12, 1994

     CT Killingly       The  Mad - VETLink #11      203-779-3173-NL !
     CT Killingworth    The Hub                     203-663-1147
     CT Meriden         Amiga Probe                 203-878-5879
     CT Plantsville     The Pig Pen                 203-628-9346
     CT Plantsville     The Pig Pen                 203-620-0562
     CT Southington     DownStairs SC EchoHub       203-621-1930
     CT Wallingford     Prime Connection            203-265-9582
     CT Wallingford     Prime Connection            203-269-2843
     CT Wallingford     Vampire Connection          203-269-8313
     CT West Haven      Ascii Tipi (VETLink #15)    203-934-9852-NL !
     CT Willimatic      Starbase 9/VETLink #51      203-423-6799-NL !
     CT Windsor Locks   DIAMOND BBS                 203-292-8789
     CT Yalesville      Emerogronican BBS           203-949-0189
     DE Dover           DELFIRE BBS                 302-739-6757
     DE New Castle      Hackers BBS                 302-322-8215
     FL Clarcona        West Orange BBS             407-293-2724
     FL Clearwater      Future Com                  813-796-8259
     FL Cocoa           VETLink 60/The Merc's Motel 407-639-0282-NL !
     FL Davis           The Southern Cross BBS      305-424-0666
     FL Deland          Bill's Bandwagon            904-738-3858
     FL Jacksonville    Guiding Light (VETLink #32) 904-744-9991-NL !
     FL Jacksonville    Maranatha (VETLink #49)     904-353-3807-NL !
      ^^ DOWN ^^
     FL Jacksonville    Maranatha (VETLink #49)     904-353-3558-NL !
      ^^ DOWN ^^
     FL Jacksonville    Whispers (VETLink #65)      904-744-5624-NL !
     FL Keystone Hts.   The Lion's Den              904-473-4330
     FL Kissimmee       Micro-Imaging BBS           407-847-5499
     FL Kissimmee       The Program Exchange        407-870-2735
     FL Melbourne       Flamingo BBS                407-253-0782
     FL Melbourne       REACT BBS                   407-255-9948
     FL Merritt Island  Electric Island BBS         407-454-3779
     FL Navarre         Terrapin Station            904-939-8027
     FL New Port Richie Inner Sanctum               813-848-6055
     FL Orlando         Digital Connection          407-896-0494
     FL Orlando         Gourmet Delight             407-649-4136
     FL Orlando         Infinite Space Online       407-658-4578
     FL Orlando         UP-EAST BBS                 407-273-7849
     FL Panama City     Double Springs BBS          904-784-6336-NL !
                        (VETLink #64)
     FL Pembroke Pines  Bitsy's Place (VETLink #17) 305-432-8210-NL !
     FL Pensacola       TITAN Services Inc.         904-479-2448
     FL Pensacola       TITAN Services Inc.         904-476-1270
     FL Rockledge       Energy Line 1               407-690-0032
     FL Shalimar        Bear's Den                  904-864-5327
     FL St. Petersburg  Doc's Place!                813-896-0046
     FL St. Petersburg  Florida Mail Hub            813-321-0734
     FL St. Petersburg  1 Computers   (VETLink #43) 813-527-1556-NL !
      ^^ DOWN ^^
     FL St. Petersburg  1 Computers   (VETLink #43) 813-521-3149-NL !
      ^^ DOWN ^^
     FL St. Petersburg  Twilight BBS                813-323-6023
     FL Sarasota        The Four Winds BBS          813-955-7862
     FL Sebring         ANCESTRY TBBS               813-471-0552
     FL Tampa           The GIFfer                  813-969-1089
     FL Tampa           The Godfather BBS